Siege Green - Manufacturing and Ship Blueprint Updates

When should it go live? I thought it would be before FANFEST which is in 2-3 days

Probably next Tuesday unless they push it live over the weekend

That in a nutshell, is precisely where we differ. I think the game should inflate up, caps have been endgame for 15 years, introduce T2 caps and CCP buys another 15 years. Allow vets to earn a titan if they’re going to sub multiple accounts chasing one, particular if the new T2 caps whelp them easily enough, players will soon switch to the higher cost of the T2 variants, which could require gas, all those PI products and a citadel core to drain ISK.

They need to make the current endgame deprecated content imo rather than increasing the resource cost of current T1 caps to artificially extend their shelf life trying to keep players on the treadmill longer. Great if they can get away it, avoids having to develop new content as often, but I think players see it for what it is; exploitative.

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yeah well you are wrong, ships aren’t endgame content and they never were

Semantics. You accept caps are at the end of a long skill train and resource acquisition journey right? A good proportion of players are motivated by longterm goals which is precisely what caps provide… In many respects that’s MMO design 101.

Well what is the end game content??? Big ships in big fights are my end game. I have some of the big ships just need the big fight.
But if i had been in the game 10 plus years without a new big ship i would not b happy.
I want t2 caps just because i like the challange of building the big stuff

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Since faction ships will be cheaper to build, will there be a fix for loyalty stores too?

Yea I Love The Changes! But I Can’t Stand the Fact That you said You Were reducing The Cap Parts input on All Capital Ships, Not Just The Dread’s And Titan’s, And You Didn’t, Changed A few inputs, But The Cap Parts Are The same For Orca’s, Carrier’s, and Force Aux’s, these were part of the packaged, and you cut it out, Typical Of CCP as of Late, And you will but it on the back burner and give it to us later when we complain, its this type of attitude and actions that are really turning me off of Eve. I run seven accounts and give CCP 200-300 Usd a month, by the end of may, if they don’t have a Discount for members who run multiple alt accounts, thats the last straw for me. I Can’t Continue To Support A Company That Makes it’s Mind UP on The Fly and Do What’s Better For There Pocket Book, Then What’s Better for The Players, Focus on The Players and The Money Will Come. So Sad i Was Happy with Fan Fest And What They Are Working On, Then They Go And Drop A Update, And Cut out Half Of the Content That was supper important.

And The Fact That You Made The Changes To Medium Stations, is not about content, its about you guys CCP, Inciting more Fights and Getting More People To Blow ■■■■ UP, Thus Making Them More Money, I wonder How Many Greifer Corps are ran By CCP employees and or CCP Gives Greifer Corp’s Unlimited Supplies To Go Around and Just Destroy The High Sec Corps that are Small, I really Dont See CCP and Eve Staying alive another decade at this rate, You cant even own a station now with out it being poped, unless wait, you HAVE TO JOIN THE BIG CORPs ! and Do what they tell you, So much for a fun sandbox game, it’s turning out to be another game just like any other FPS game, rinse and reapeat, cause i cant build an empire or even a small indy corp, unless i follow “X” Guide Line’s Created By CCP and There Friend’s (Big Corps like Goons) Horrible That They Have Left The Loner’s or Small Groups out of the Big Picture.

@CCP why have the promised values of capital construction parts for carriers not been provided? the spreadsheet that you provided was very clear on the future requirements but instead the only thing that has changed is the amount of items you get when you build Life support units or Auto-Integrity (from 1 to 3 units per run).

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In my opinion the production changes should have been for sub capital ships only. There’s too many capital and super capital ships in game already, they should be a rare sight not the norm. By making sub-capitals cheaper, fleet compositions would have changed… but no lets keep the capital blobs alive.

ffs

Put in the work to earn caps yourself then? Some of us spent years in sub payments to build and fly them. You instant gratification monkies that expect immediate parity with vets are overly entitled.

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Its not semantics. Ships are not content. If they were, there would never be a reason to build them if the only thing you did with them was absolutely nothing.

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So you are saying you go get your big ship, get into a big fight and then you quit the game because you have ended it? There is nothing stopping you from doing that.

Ok I see what you’re trying to get at, you’re wrong, but I’ll explain why. Null sec has been crying out for MORE conflict drivers, we want MORE supercap battles not less. That’s literally my entire position, reading about early supercap battles in PC Gamer is why I joined Eve to begin with. They garner press attention and big streams.

We want to use our toys in combat, there is nothing more compelling than dropping a 70b ship (at the time - 140b now post this update) into a large battle with alliance friends. I was shaking the first time I did it. It genuinely stoked a Band of Brothers style camaraderie, you were putting something huge on the line for your friends who were willing to do the same for you. I was there when CJ lost his Komodo and on comms when he was desperately trying to get everyone in TEST to build cap components for him so he could build another. The video still gives me chills when Frat dropped the hammer to DD his Komodo:

You are MISSING OUT by not going on the journey, it was EVERYTHING in Eve and it’s now lost.

Now imagine if T1 cap build costs were reverted to pre indy changes / scarcity and T2 caps were introduced, We’d have that multi year journey to climb before we’d start to see T2 caps in big fights. It would bring a HUGELY NEEDED null sec long term aspiration and I’d wager a good proportion of lost players would return hunting them. People who were near T1 caps would be happy, vets with T1 caps would have something to chase. Win-win.

You may not understand it, but it would be good for the game and CCP’s wallet.

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nice to see quotes taken completely out of context, what are you a politician? lol

I think the point here was that big ships are an end goal for many players, train and work towards a capital or super capital. This does not mean that they then quit when they get them it is just that they are the biggest ships in game so a bit of a status to have one.

I have been playing since 2003 when the game first came out in the EU, have to say i left in late 2010 due to real life commitments and having came back last year I really see no major difference in the ship classes at all. T3 was out then for cruisers only, and capitals were as popular then as now but no significant positive changes to them over the last 13 years. Only difference is the massively increased production costs, and when they say they will reduce them for carriers what do they do? they lie and don’t reduce them by the amount they say said they would.

This game is stagnant and combined with the increases in cost to play for no content updates or fixes how long will the game now last?

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No we need capitals to be cheaper to build man, and they shouldn’t be a rare sight, only rare if you live in high sec, capitals should be the backbone of a null sec alliances fleet, and us indy guys shouldn’t struggle to make them… And they could make battleships about a third cheaper to make as well, so we can see more high sec corps building them for their fleets and assets… Eve is about the long run man.

Ships don’t drive content. Players do. The idea that cheap ships = more content is so firmly debunked it is ridiculous.

There are lots of players in this game who never did that, and are far more relevant than a nullsec krab that flames out after 3-4 years.

No, it wouldn’t. The abundance error already proved that. All it does, is create the false idea that ships are the goal and then when the trivial goal of building and flying a ship is met, drives people to quit with ‘nothing else’ left to do.

It wasn’t taken out of context at all, and what you are referring to absolutely is the sort of thinking that causes a loss of interest once these low quality goals are met.

You are living in a fantasy land if you think after 12 years of devaluing everything that it wasn’t radically more costly to build caps in 2010 than it was even with the indy changes.

Then quit

What are you talking about? NPSI groups and whaling fleets exist to hunt big ships, the cap escalation chain is also heavily influenced by the types of ship on grid and in what numbers. Of course they drive content, both pvp (above), but also industrial goals to gather resources to build them.

You are talking nonsense, some kind of psuedo-logic which isn’t very well thought through.

Ok should have said it was everything to my personal enjoyment and to many I played with. It also drove publicity, excitement and brought new players to the game. To lose it from the game is a real shame.

Appreciate lots of players haven’t tried it, but I think they’d really enjoy the journey if they did and they certainly shouldn’t be calling for its removal if it didn’t interest them.

Don’t agree with abundance being an error or that ships shouldn’t be the goal. However I do agree with the last bit around people having nothing left to do, hence advocating for T2 caps! Give players a new mountain to climb that are motivated by such things. That shouldn’t just apply to caps incidentally, T3 Frigs, T2 Battleships and so on, everyone should be given a steady stream of content for their particular playstyle. NPE is delivering content to new players, great, but not unreasonable for vets to receive some content too!

LOL I own many caps AND super caps (both Titans and motherships), I talk out of everything I’ve seen since 2004 which is when I started playing. Don’t go throwing the “he’s a noob” flag around just because I have a different opinion than yours.

I remember eve when there were less caps and more sub-caps in fleet fights. It was glorious and fun. Now its just a giant blob of tidi.

Caps and more so Supers, should be an aspiration, and an end goal for everyone. They should be prohibitively expensive to field, where FC’s have to balance the risk/reward of calling in the Big Boys. Making them cheaper lowers the risk (as you can replace them way easier), and so fleet comps rely TOO MUCH on caps and supers. They should be the diversifiers, the force multiplying ace you keep hidden… they should not be the whole deck of cards.

As for being something people look up to having… if everyone could drive a Ferrari because they become cheap… they would not be that special anymore and thus would cease to be an end goal for everyone.

you are talking about an object that does absolutely nothing on its own and play styles that existed before the abundance error. ships are not the key to that, players are. The ubiquity of caps, supers and titans (and other factors related to the abundance error) however has irrefutably stifled content.

That publicity is entirely worthless when people come in and realize the game sucks because abundance has made the vast majority of newbro friendly careers worthless money making opportunities at small scale and then quit. The available alternative is newbie alliances like goonswarm, horde and brave who cultivate instant gratification driven krabs who immediately lose interest once they get to some arbitrary point of engame ship owning and may be satisfied to play for maybe only a year before the positive feedback cycle ends.

No, lots of players will never enjoy your extremely myopic vision of eve. The tidi alone some people find totally intolerable. I find their complaining intolerable, but catering the game to a single play style that cannot sustain the game on its own is folly.

The debate is closed, abundance and the player driven implementation of fozzie sov were mistakes. New ships are not mountains. short of revamping the entire skill point system there will never be the same experience of skilling into the first capital ship again. introduce more ships, and then 3-6 months later that ‘mountain’ is done. Then what, they add more ships? what happens 3-6 months after that when that ‘mountain’ is also surpassed? Using ships as the only goal is an incredibly bad and unsustainable way of creating fake content. If a vet can’t find anything to do in this game, that is because they are choosing not to and it doesn’t matter what ship they can or can’t fly.