Simple question about the FOB

[Kai_Onslot]

As the Years of playing Eve has gone by i have seen CCP do some very Distasteful things to the game. I mean they cater to the PVP pilots forgetting that industry makes the game go round. and Now with the FOB it seems that instead of trying to sell Null sec to everyone they are Forcing people to head to Null sec. I mean I do not Like null nor will i want to be in null. I have been in eve for many a years going on 11 to be exact. Now i am trying to figure out why CCP wants players in Null. some of us just want to build and enjoy the building aspect of the game.
I know players that love playing the market. I know Players that love doing Research. Yes I know there are players that play the market and just sit in station. Then there are those that love to play in Null and kill eachother. Witch is all fine and good That want to be in that Mega Corp or alliance Like Goon. Then you have those that just want to hang with others that are like Minded.
Now i know people are going to think Kai is just complaining. No that is not the case at all .I am speaking up for the people that are in highsec that do not voice what they are thinking. You see when i heard about eve it was from a very old player that has sense passed who used to play another mmorpg with me. He talked about the Comradeship. The way things where run and the depth of the story that was told in the missions.
Sense the FOB came in we do not seem to have a choice. CCP wants to push everyone to Null and not give us a choice to stay. you have a Citedal you stand a chance to loose it. All the work that players enjoy will be gone. Yet CCP wants us highsecs to move to a place they do not. I looked at the ammount of players on line and it is below 30k what it is normally at. Yet CCP does not see a problem this is peak time. Something needs to be changed or the Game we all love will be Dead and gone. because no new players will join if they are getting popped right off the bat.

Thank you
Kai Onslot

[Black_Pedro]

@Kai_Onslot

Now i know people are going to think Kai is just complaining. No that is not the case at all .I am speaking up for the people that are in highsec that do not voice what they are thinking.

You are complaining. Your post is a rant than does not contain a question at all despite how you titled it.

FOBs are nothing more than a modern variation on the Incursion system. They offer content and some life to highsec. Like Incursions, they are trivial to avoid if you don’t want to engage with them, and serve as something to do for those looking for some different type of PvE. They are not there to force you to move to nullsec. If that was CCP’s intention, it has failed spectacularly since you can avoid them so easily, or destroy them with a small fleet of your friends.

It’s fine to tell CCP you don’t like them and prefer your space predictable and perfectly safe. You however are overstepping a bit with the hysterics that Eve is going to die because CCP added a slightly different reimagining of Incursions to the game.

Eve will be fine and so will you. Just learn how the mechanic works and adapt to it.

[Kai_Onslot]

Have you looked at the numbers. There are already people talking about Leaving the game. Call it what you want. it is Fact. There are Far fewer players online now that any day of the week. i am just stating a Fact. People do not want to loose there Citedals that they have spent billions putting up. Yet I have not seen a single outpost show up in Null. Why is that?

[Dyver_Phycad]

They are not trivial to avoid considering that they can spawn in several systems and multiple times per system around your preferred base. You cannot “just move” your base of operations, ie. a citadel or assets in stations you base out of, every other day to a new region or constellation just because some random unrewarding FOB pops up in the system.

Destroying them is also not “easy”. It is annoying. You can do it with 2 ships or even 1 ship, but you sit there for an hour or more just attacking it. And if the wrong ships spawn, you have to add another 30 minutes until the wrong spawn disappears. And if the hauler from the belt miners, which this FOB spawns as well, warps to the FOB, it triggers another set of defender NPC, which potentially are too much for your 2 ships to handle, which adds another timer until they despawn. All in all, FOB are nothing but a pest. Incursions at least are rewarding and you know what to expect from them.

The same goes for these normal NPC miner spawns, which not only remove ore from the game where the least mining takes place, they are also a nuisance to get rid of. Yet, in null sec almost none of those spawns exist, and where they exist, they mine in useless belts instead of focusing predominantly on the moon fields or ore anomalies.

All in all: Instead of providing enjoyable PVE, CCP only introduces more and more nuisances to EVE.

[Black_Pedro]

@Kai_Onslot

Have you looked at the numbers. There are already people talking about Leaving the game. Call it what you want. it is Fact. There are Far fewer players online now that any day of the week.

Here are the player counts since Lifeblood added the FOBs to the game:

The game seems pretty stable to me.

@Kai_Onslot

People do not want to loose there Citedals that they have spent billions putting up. Yet I have not seen a single outpost show up in Null. Why is that?

FOBs are a highsec only thing. Nullsec has a much tougher cousin in the Pirate Sotoyos which function very similar:

Faction Sotiyos: Overpowered or Overcompensating? - INN

However, if you are just worried that some FOB spawns attacked your Citadel, don’t be. They may reinforce it once, but they are not very intelligent and won’t show up for the next timer. As far as I am aware they haven’t ever exploded a player structure in highsec. Usually they just just shoot it for a bit, get bored and move on.

@Dyver_Phycad

They are not trivial to avoid considering that they can spawn in several systems and multiple times per system around your preferred base. You cannot “just move” your base of operations, ie. a citadel or assets in stations you base out of, every other day to a new region or constellation just because some random unrewarding FOB pops up in the system.

It’s pretty much the same as if an Incursion show up. At least a small group has a chance of removing a FOB, whereas a whole Incursion requires much more effort.

Just move a system or two over. I can’t believe there has been a situation where someone can’t find another system within a jump or two without a FOB.

I have very little sympathy for the “but what about muh ISK/h!” complaint that any intrusion on your normal routine is some massive game breaking problem. It is a game and this is one of the challenges. Find a way to deal with it.

@Dyver_Phycad

Destroying them is also not “easy”.

It’s way easier than an Incursion and totally possible to do by the small groups that live in highsec.

@Dyver_Phycad

All in all: Instead of providing enjoyable PVE, CCP only introduces more and more nuisances to EVE.

It’s totally fair to say you don’t like the content or that is boring/repetitive. But there is nothing fundamentally new here. The mechanic is less understood than Incursions are now, but you have for years been subject to NPCs that can force you to react or mess up your plans. Since the beginning there have been NPCs that will attack you in highsec, and for well over half-a-decade there has been areas of space that come under attack by very powerful NPCs you might have to evade. Eve isn’t going to die because of this, and in my opinion, needs more of this to bring some life to the game universe.

[Dyver_Phycad]

@Black_Pedro

but you have for years been subject to NPCs that can force you to react or mess up your plans.

In contrast to FOBs, you can make actual money in Incursions and grouping up is rewarded, not punished by harder or more NPCs.

@Black_Pedro

Eve isn’t going to die because of this, and in my opinion, needs more of this to bring some life to the game universe.

It’s funny that you of all people say EVE needs more NPC to breath life back into EVE. It was probably not you in particular but for years lots of people followed the gospel of despise against NPC taking jobs from players. And now, all of a sudden this should change?
More NPC actions are nice, yes, but what has been introduced in the last 2 years is just garbage. And that despite so many suggestions and ideas on how to introduce enjoyable and rewarding NPC interactions.

[Korthak_Ormand]

@Black_Pedro

You are complaining. Your post is a rant than does not contain a question at all despite how you titled it.

First off, the question is the statement itself. With FOBs being able to roam belts, attack structures and even Gate Camp in HS. To me I don’t see how that is a re-imagined incursion. The FOBs can be avoided for the most part, that I agree with.

The Statement as the question is this, “Why is it only HS, that this spawns in, Why is it that it is geared toward effecting those who do the basic mining and building that fuels the economy?”

So Pedro, to me it seems your the one whom needs to get a clue of the what is the behind the scenes blue collar backbone of the game. PvP doesn’t exist without the miners and builders, those you call carebears are the same ones whom build the ships and other items needed. To hinder them is to hinder the economy and cause the market prices to inflate, thus making it harder for the newer players whom may be interested quit because they can’t afford to fit ships.

I myself would like to know why CCP likes to cater to the Pvpers and gankers, yet make live harder for the ones whom fuel the market?

@Black_Pedro

It’s totally fair to say you don’t like the content or that is boring/repetitive. But there is nothing fundamentally new here. The mechanic is less understood than Incursions are now, but you have for years been subject to NPCs that can force you to react or mess up your plans. Since the beginning there have been NPCs that will attack you in highsec, and for well over half-a-decade there has been areas of space that come under attack by very powerful NPCs you might have to evade. Eve isn’t going to die because of this, and in my opinion, needs more of this to bring some life to the game universe.

I would like to see some proof of your effort and progress in utilizing the FOBs.
I would also like to point out that your graph for player base is based off of logins, not actual players doing constructive things. Remove the station campers, those who log in to just chat or trash talk, remove those alone and your graph becomes biased garbage.

@Dyver_Phycad

It’s funny that you of all people say EVE needs more NPC to breath life back into EVE. It was probably not you in particular but for years lots of people followed the gospel of despise against NPC taking jobs from players. And now, all of a sudden this should change?
More NPC actions are nice, yes, but what has been introduced in the last 2 years is just garbage. And that despite so many suggestions and ideas on how to introduce enjoyable and rewarding NPC interactions.

I agree with that…the most of the NPC based content has been garbage in the last few years.

[Kai_Onslot]

Highsec is not all rainbows and lollipops and unicorns. Having to deal with Gank squads from other corps and Wait not having to deal with a NPC that Concord will not shoot and or kill . You call say we need more of this from the NPCs. I am sorry to say but hearing about new comers to the game getting Smashed by the FOB and not getting any defense from the stations they live out of. Now how is it supposed to breath more lifeblood into the game. I agree with Dyver. Risk to take them out is not worth the loss of isk. you gain nothing from taking them on.
You only gain a pain in the neck. you talk about things needing to add more. Alright lets talk about that the CSM or the player that talk about content. Lets see they turn around and Give more to the PVPers and take away from the indy. FOB are the biggest FLOP that has hit eve sense I started the game.

Pedro you talk about numbers when i started eve back in 07 i was used to seeing 50k plus players on at any one time. Now lucky to see according to what you are showing 40k. Now here is a question how many of those are actual players?

Yes insursions where a pain in the neck when First introduced. But nothing like this. This is a Nightmare. How is eve supposed to get new players when they are blasted into space dust Fresh out the gate?

[Black_Pedro]

@Dyver_Phycad

More NPC actions are nice, yes, but what has been introduced in the last 2 years is just garbage. And that despite so many suggestions and ideas on how to introduce enjoyable and rewarding NPC interactions.

I totally respect your view on that. I am less on board with your view that things have to be directly rewarding to be considered good, but you are entitled to not like the new stuff.

@Dyver_Phycad

It’s funny that you of all people say EVE needs more NPC to breath life back into EVE. It was probably not you in particular but for years lots of people followed the gospel of despise against NPC taking jobs from players. And now, all of a sudden this should change?

Highsec is dead compared to the past. CCP nerfed the life out of it and we have seen how inert the space has come. I would love it if CCP focused an expansion on reinvigorating player piracy in highsec and let them take the role of the FOBs, but I’ll take more life-like NPCs over empty space.

Having to react to the unexpected and deal with a changing environment is in my opinion good for the game. It makes it a game rather than a farming simulator. I won’t go as far to say this new PvE has managed to succeed well at that and in a fun way, but I don’t begrudge CCP for trying.

@Korthak_Ormand

The Statement as the question is this, “Why is it only HS, that this spawns in, Why is it that it is geared toward effecting those who do the basic mining and building that fuels the economy?”

It spawns in highsec because CCP wanted to do a PvE-focused expansion to the game that was Lifeblood. It is intended to be a good thing - to make things more interesting and provide things to do for highsec residents. Highsec activity has indeed fallen quite a bit and CCP was trying with this to make the game better and more engaging for people who live there.

The game is not short of stuff right now. Everyone is swimming in resources and richer than ever. You are not going to convince me that increasing destruction, or making resource gathering/industry slightly more difficult is going to kill the game. If anything, it is the glut of stuff we all have that is smothering the game, and giving less reasons for people to do stuff.

Mechanics like this are good for the game as they separate good players from bad players. We need more things like this, not less.

@Kai_Onslot

Yes insursions where a pain in the neck when First introduced. But nothing like this. This is a Nightmare. How is eve supposed to get new players when they are blasted into space dust Fresh out the gate?

You are being overly dramatic. They are just a slight variation on existing NPCs. You can avoid them - the Agency tab tells you where they are - or you and a few friends can spend an hour and clear them out. They are more mild than Incursions, and while I have sympathy for those that get caught out by them, or the NPC miners, the first time, they aren’t especially difficult to deal with once you know about them.

Dealing with loss is something every new player needs to deal with. They lose ships all the time, even in traditional missions or to belt rats or gankers. There is nothing wrong with this and while I see where your instinct to bubble-wrap them is coming from, it is counter-productive. Let them learn to lose stuff and manage risk early on and they will be better Eve players, and in my view more likely to stay with the game than if they never lose anything for months until a mistake costs them most of their net worth.

[Dyver_Phycad]

@Black_Pedro

Highsec is dead compared to the past. CCP nerfed the life out of it and we have seen how inert the space has come. I would love it if CCP focused an expansion on reinvigorating player piracy in highsec and let them take the role of the FOBs, but I’ll take more life-like NPCs over empty space.

You can do that with wars and ganking already.

[Korthak_Ormand]

@Black_Pedro

Dealing with loss is something every new player needs to deal with. They lose ships all the time, even in traditional missions or to belt rats or gankers. There is nothing wrong with this and while I see where your instinct to bubble-wrap them is coming from, it is counter-productive. Let them learn to lose stuff and manage risk early on and they will be better Eve players, and in my view more likely to stay with the game than if they never lose anything for months until a mistake costs them most of their net worth.

I agree with your statement, but to do it a manner that still allows them to get familiar with the game mechanics while dealing with ship lose, the FOBs do not allow that. Eve has done some things to help with the learning curve for new players, though annoying to Veteran players. The new tutorial then Career missions both help with the learning curve, it helps to give some direction. But it breaks it in to them slowly so they can actually learn and not be overloaded.

New players already have to deal with Gankers looking for easy targets, examples being CODE,most of Goon and several merc pirate groups.

[Kaivarian_Coste]

Solution to OP’s problem:

Step #1. Click on stargate.
Step #2. Jump.

[Lfod_Shi]

Some FOB rats spent the weekend bashing my HS Raitaru. They didn’t even scratch the paint. I took the first batch out with a Rapid Light Missile Gnosis and just let the rest waste their ammo since they weren’t worth wasting my ammo. They went away after a couple days.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Lfod_Shi

Some FOB rats spent the weekend bashing my HS Raitaru. They didn’t even scratch the paint.

There’s at least one crew of killer Blood Raider pirates flying a punisher out there:

Raitaru | Build Research and Business | Killmail

Pretty funny.

[Hypercake_Mix]

The problem with FOBs is their current difficulty is teaching players that they can’t do anything about it unless they have the skill points to field a proper PvE fleet while also shutting down chill operations. IMO, getting ganked by CODE has a more positive impact than getting a FOB dropped on newer players.

[Rovinia]

I mean they cater to the PVP pilots forgetting that industry makes the game go round.

Just for info, that changed pretty much in the last years. Allmost every null entity maintains a strong industry division nowadays.

[March_rabbit]

Back in 2009 when i just entered the cluster there was no tutorials and no career missions.

Somehow i managed to start and continue up until now. Even managed to lose my ship to baiters “help me to test my tank” (triple tank and mixed guns on Myrmidon anyone?).
Nice times.

Feeling pity for newcomers who stand no chance in the game without helping hand and step-by-step instructions…

[Lfod_Shi]

D’oh! I wonder if system security rating has any effect? Regardless, I’ll have to take them more seriously.

[Hidden_Markov]

@Black_Pedro

they are trivial to avoid if you don’t want to engage with them, and serve as something to do for those looking for some different type of PvE

this. hi sec pve’ers actually ask for content like this. They’d be the rat shooting lol. Only issue it seems is the payout is not luring in droves to smash them. If they offered more I’d gather people would jump on these in a heartbeat. I seem to recall some incursion fans were like a traveling circus. Pick up and go to next one, set jp camp as it were, run it and move on to the next one when done.

Not sure where the builder issue is coming from. Do these spawn right on top of a station undock to blap a freighter? Or is this a not a builder issue but a belt rats just got harder miner whine? Move to another system for a bit. Eve is big place, explore it.

[Korthak_Ormand]

@Hidden_Markov

Not sure where the builder issue is coming from. Do these spawn right on top of a station undock to blap a freighter? Or is this a not a builder issue but a belt rats just got harder miner whine? Move to another system for a bit. Eve is big place, explore it.

They patrol the system, attacking in belts, attack at stations, attack structures and attack at gates.

@Lfod_Shi

D’oh! I wonder if system security rating has any effect? Regardless, I’ll have to take them more seriously.

They have been spotted in systems from .9 to .5