A catalyst is probably a poor choice tbh. Missiles, longer range weapons would be better.
The blanket claim that it is hard to gank without any proof though doesn’t sit well. The EHP is not that great.
Just look at what ganked that Mach.
Hauling is hauling. What would you have CCP do to make it more interesting or interactive where you can ask a friend to do it without him instantly quitting the game? The example you use is a bit inflated because while I wasn’t around at the time of freighter convoys, I can assume it was done because of the lack of warping to gates at zero. You needed a fleet to protect you while you either warped to your fleet member or slow boated each gate at 15km away. I also assume Jump Freighters didn’t exist at that point.
You can’t cry about doing an activity that either forces you to do it yourself with an alt or to have a friend help. You’re being unreasonable.
If it’s too much effort to use an alt and too much of an inconvenience to use a friend, then I don’t see how any change in mechanics will help you. Hauling is for the most part going to be a boring part of moving things around. Sure you might enjoy admiring the solar systems as you warp and travel, but eventually it will turn into something that you want to do while accomplishing other tasks.
So short of you being able to magically select where you want cargo teleported and having the game move it for you, you’re just stuck here complaining.
Ok, now find me a missile gank ship that puts out anything like what a Catalyst does. Oh and don’t forget the mitigation from speed, and the need for the missiles to catch the mach in the first place. Suddenly you are now dropping vastly more isk on your counter fleet.
That Mach kill you listed was not a Gank btw. Not a single loss for the corp on those days, the mach went suspect looting and got caught. So that isn’t what is needed to gank one.
@Faylee
Freighter convoys were using wtz bookmarks, so you could effectively warp to zero, you still needed the escorts because of the align times on the out gates. And no, I’m not unreasonable to say that CCP have given us bad mechanics. Sure it’s going to be somewhat boring, but there are significant areas that it could be improved.
I’ll just go with the actual ships that ganked that Mach in the first place. The Naga’s are no more expensive than a Nado.
2 Naga, Gnosis (could easily be switched for something else) and a catalyst.
It clearly works. That isn’t the only Mach those characters have ganked.
He’s more with the same setup:
Here’s 5 bombers instead of the 2 Nagas. Cheaper and good DPS (and used in Freighter ganks also):
Killboards have all the info needed to get set to gank a bump Mach, with a far smaller fleet than it takes to kill a Freighter.
i think that being stuck on details is not actually relevant for the discussion. it leads to more and more questions, without an end, because there’ll always be some detail to keep asking about. also worth noting, is that the amount of passive aggressiveness has increased slightly.
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Long day and not suffering people that make blanket statements without even trying to verify what they claim.
But you’re right. Time to step away from the keyboard. Not EVE related, just the end of a long day.
Edit: My apology Nevin. Not meaning to take it off topic and I generally respect what you write.
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That’s funny STOP AND FRISK is my alt. I don’t suspect loot in my bump Mach. I was ganked out of sentry range on a gate. If I’m remembering correctly I’ve been ganked 3 times? So yeah, you’re wrong there buddy.
If I was ganked enough it might cause me to rethink my bumping strategy. That will never happen because it’s impossible, right?
How would you improve hauling? You’re flying a capital class freighter with untold billions in cargo. You are slow, have no offensive capabilities, and vulnerable. How do you change hauling?
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Stop using modern industrials as inspiration for hauler ships and instead look at the era of the Spanish main, and WW2 bombers for ‘cargo’ haulers that existed in actual heavy piracy times.
Like i said, obviously longer times to gank also which would decrease the number of alts needed to gank poor fits.
And if that is your alt, why did the ships that ‘ganked’ you not die. Because I checked their KB on that time, they have plenty of losses on their KB. But none at that particular time, only the mach kill.
None taken Scipio.
So like a freighter with guns. This is a game of math and numbers. If that happens then gankers will adapt and bring what is needed to compensate for premature ganker losses. The threshold for ganking will also increase in the case of ganking for profit. We’re pretty good at adaptive. We’ve had to do a lot of it.
It is my alt, no doubts there. ‘Feminist Robot’ is also an older bumper of mine. You will find 1-2 losses on her if I remember correctly.
It’s likely that they don’t have their apis on zkill where losses aren’t automatically populated, short of manually posting them? Lots of gankers try to keep any bit of intel out of public.
I only know what I know, and it was a gank.
Well yes, ganking would continue. I agree that ganking is good for the game and it should stay. That doesn’t mean I can’t believe the current gank & bump mechanics are bad.
Hecate isn’t cat. It’s got about 25% more firepower from hull skills.
Skiff wasn’t properly tanked, because it didn’t have a DCU + transverse rigs or tech 2 hardeners (and 2 bulkheads if really paranoid). It could also have gone ACR + 10MN afterburner, which would have made it interesting to try to claw with a cat. Also EM resist hole because CODE has taken to using Coercers against people who use invuln/invuln/kin/therm hardeners.
Even with the afterburner, the Skiff is a lot slower than a mach. Still, when bumping, the mach has to bounce back because of the way the bump “mechanic” works. If you got really good, you could measure distance to the freighter within a few hundred km and drop cats right on the mach. Maybe it’s even got one of those shiny X-type MWDs.
I haz only one active account, so someone else can do this.
Sorry, what Hecate. Did I miss something?
Oh, on the Skiff? It wasn’t a gank at all. The attacking ships on that mail are irrelevant almost (except for slight difference in passive shield regen compared to other ships in the time taken to kill it).
As for properly tanked, feel free to go find one. I can’t brain enough right now. It isn’t easy if you manually search, but if you find one, that will only highlight the point that was made even further.
Like I said you are entitled to your opinion, but when told what the preventative measures and counters are it’s hard to seriously look anything that’s been argued against bumping as legit.
Sounds like you have a better argument on how hauling is mostly boring as there’s really no point you can bring up that I can counter against with sound logic and reason.
It’s a fair analogy 
Bot aspirancy = The need for risk free afk ISK.
Wow. You really don’t get this game, do you?
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I recall a situation where a 40b whale of a freighter full of Lokis and Loki subsystems, right after the T3C rebalance patch when prices were sky high, was intercepted by Miniluv and bumped. As Miniluv was getting ships handed out and preparing to undock, the freighter pilot made some excellent decisions. He started jetcanning the most valuable bits and picking them up in a blockade runner. He also had a frigate burning warp-out perches. He was a pain to hold down and he ended up evaccing almost half his loot. Battle report (we managed to catch the blockade runner at zero on the freighter; zkill valuation was much lower than actual market price).
I recall several situations where a high-value freighter bound for w-space was bumped, only to have an army of DSTs show up and evac the whole cargo.
I was personally bumping an expanded freighter when a bunch of his corp mates show up in frigates. The frigates started burning warp-out perches in all directions. He managed to escape me four times because of them (and because I’m a pretty bad bumper), but thanks to combat probes and his poor align time and lack of webber, I was able to catch up with him and re-establish bumps each time until our fleet could finally arrive to kill him.
There is plenty of great counterplay available to freighters. It just depends on having capable friends.
Also FYI for the guy above who claimed warp at >100% of speed is impossible, you would be wrong about that. The conditions for warp are being aligned within 5 degrees of the destination point and traveling at greater than 75% of max navigation speed. Overspeed is no issue. A good counterexample is a station insta-undock. You undock at well over max speed but can still instantly enter warp if you have a good vector.
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There are other aspects of bumping that people fail to realize are connected. That large collidable object (Drone Hive) you can’t warp through and get stuck on… Bumping is the mechanic in play. Thankfully, you keep bumping till you go around it and get to warp. If you didn’t, you’d be stuck. Now we could all pass through this stuff but it would ruin the immersion and, in some cases, make things easier. (Stupid mission orca).
What to really have fun being bumped… Get in a POS and have someone change the password on you. There’s bumping again. It’s used very well in one of the Rooks and Kings video. Yet if you didn’t bump on a shield when attacking a POS… Your ship would freeze when you hit the shield, have no angular velocity and the POS guns would have fun.
More fun… Get a bookmark in the sun… Then charge the sun with an MWD on… Oh the speed you’ll reach is amazing. But hey, let’s turn bumping off so you can fly right through the sun.
Bumping isn’t just about ships interacting with each other. It’s about how objects react in eve, be it with other ships or other objects. You need to make mechanics that work for both.
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I haven’t tried the sun hyperspeed thing, I tried but I probably did it wrong
Edit, Jee. . I’m contradicting myself… I tried but haven’t succeeded is what I meant
Jennifer En Marland is the whole name IIRC, she’s the only anti ganker I have any respect for, because she’s willing to use every option at her disposal and to put her stuff on the line to accomplish her goals.
She suicide ganked my old character once, for bumping Mackinaws in Tolle.
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Same story with Jenn.
Several years ago had many run ins with them.
Several 1v1 duels, some gank/anti-ganks.
Jenn would come rescue mission bears too.
Kind of interesting that literally like 1 character in over HALF A DECADE sticks out to us here from the “good guy” side.
Whats that say about you antigankers?
Jenn En by themself is better than over 5 years of all you whiteknights put together.
SAD!
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