the size of the bonus isnt important whats important is the actual damage being done to the target
mach certainly isnt lacking there
and youre only comparing it to other pirate bses rather than all bses and subcaps in general
if we do that the power creep becomes more apparent
and why the meta is in bad shape because pirate bses eclipse the meta
that doesnt mean i want pirate bses to be nerfed though
i want everything else to be buffed relative to the current power level set by pirate bses
Yes the mac does a lot of damage, but if you look at all the mac fits especially the high DPS ones, they are a lot less tanky than other BS in the same class, and don’t get some of the other combat bonuses like other pirate bs might such as web bonus, neuts, Tracking, resists, etc.
So, yes, the mac is fast and has DPS, but it comes at a tradeoff, which is why you don’t see everyone using macs for everything. It is a useful tool, but it is not the best in all situations.
sure it doesnt have every available role bonus because its a pure combat ship
it has speed and dps and while it might have less tank than other pirate bses
it still has bs tank along with the fittings to accomodate
between the mach and the rs pretty much all the pure combat ships are… i dont wanna say obsolete but its pretty close to it
“Take a look at” does not mean “will change” it just means they’ll see if it needs a change. I’d say it’s pretty clear at this point that their answer was “no”.
This is @ccp_rise (edit: wHY CANT I @ LINK CCP RISE?) From Feb. 2015 about the BS warpspeed changes and the discussions about them with csm recently back then…
This was the same balance patch as the ishtar nerf that took like 3 years to do.
They say they are not going to adjust BS WarpSpeed at that time in Feb 2015 because they put some stupid graph with no labels that shows TOTAL OVERALL PVP DAMAGE DONE by ship class.
NO ■■■■ BS HAVE MASSIVE DAMAGE DONE…
THIS WAS OLD SOV.
STRUCTURE BASHING SOV.
POCO/POS BASHING
DONE BY BSES…
NO ■■■■ THEY HAD MASSIVE DAMAGE DONE LOL
Lol such imcopetance at analizing data and conclusions.
@CSM you have mentioned BS speed MANY ADDITIONAL TIMES since middle of 2014/2015.
Status update REQUIRED CSM!!
they were crap when they warped 3.0 they are crappier now that is all i have to say on a subject avoiding semi intelligent arguments for argument sake.
Obviously this isn’t a solution, in a fleet engagement you probably arent going to sacrifice time for a couple of battleships that may or may not actually render aid or be of use to make a difference anyway. A FC isn’t going to give up response time just for that and will likely end up putting them in their own wing/squad or forcing them to warp themselves independent of the fleet to prevent the entire fleet from being slower.
If you look at the overall pacing between the various classes of ships you have
Frigs 5.0
Dessies 4.5
Cruisers 3.0
BCs 2.7
BSs 2.0
Battleships in this instance are not only half the speed of frigs they are literally less than half the speed of a frigate at warp. I understand you want a frigate to be able to cut off a battleship in warp and such, but this level of differential is grotesque at best. A more appropriate pacing would be
5
4.5
4
3.5
3
This would slightly increase cruisers, battle cruisers, and battleships speeds while still giving a destroyer and frigate the advantage. The whole reason they were changed in the first place was due to the warp acceleration curve which took into account acceleration and deceleration from warp speeds which make up about a 1/5 the time in warp. However, at the time if I remember correctly EVERYONE had the same rate of acceleration and deceleration which meant even though a frigate was 5 au/s and BS 2 au/s the difference was not really noticeable in shorter warp lanes such as less than 100 aus long. Honestly I think CCP over-exaggerated the AUs/s needed for a frigate to overtake a battleship in warp. Or even a cruiser. Even 4 au/s over 3 is still enough time for a HIC to land before a BS and tackle. In fact the cruiser to BS rate would remain the same 1 au apart. This would just close the overall gap in warp speed to allow a BS to not fall so far behind in the first place, I admit a BS should be slower and not fastest class in the fleet but 2.0 compared to 5.0 is just ridiculous, and thats just baselines, never mind an AF over a T1 BS which is probably more commonly flown together in a fleet than a Marauder/Blops with an AF. lol in that case it would be 5.5 over 2.0
Just revert the mobility changes and make battle cruisers and battleships warp and allign as fast as they used to be if not faster. Or give them way more firepower and HP if they’re gonna be slow like caps. They never should have been nerfed.
Tbh they should all warp the same, a tiny frigate shouldn’t be able to get ahead of a thing with engines magnitudes bigger than the entire frigate in a vacuum.
Everything warps at 5, interceptors and interdictors and such get 6.5-7.5 cause that’s their role. Caps and industrials should get like 3-4 minimum.
Make shuttles 10 and have them be nullified so shuttles have a use, but shuttles get no cargo. Or make a t2 shuttle that’s nullified.
I believe that video was posted back when the drawback for hypers was still cpu penalty. Pretty sure you can do a similar fit without a fitting mod these days.
would love to see a slight boost to BS warp speed, they should still be slow, but not as painfully slow as they are now. heck wouldn’t mind seeing the whole low end of the warp speed curve shifted up a bit. At least as far as subcaps go, I can’t say anything on cap balance.
That fit was before the cap booster 3200-enabled dual rep meta we have today. These days, a single LAAR wouldn’t do so well in that kind of a fight. It wasn’t so good in those days, either. Today’s favorite battleship builds would have performed a lot better in the kind of fight
Did i already point out that this is just another Cam alt thread?
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The meta is kitey ships and we all know speed kills.
What is the problem here?
BS are slow? No ■■■■.
Thats part of the whole hull class cascade.
If anything, its BCs that could use some small agility/warp buff to encourage more use of that class as pocket BS, especially for those who have taken time to go T2.
Imo if there is one thing this game needs, its more BCs.
Agree with the OP. BS and BC flew at 3.0 for over a decade then got nerfed. Perhaps the mother of all nerfs. I had no issue with them making the smaller ships warp faster… fine. But to make the ship classes distinctive they used the nerf bat liberally.
Since then solo roaming BS have become a rare sight.
Would like to see them returned to 3.0 Then there is a choice to use low slots, rigs or implants to fly faster.
Ferox says hi.
The rest of them, not so much, unless you want something with a high engageability stat.
BS at 3AU is out of the question.
Stabber is 3AU.
You can’t really have base warp speed go all that much higher since you would run into some rather bad cases with implants.
This is an aircraft carrier.
This is a destroyer.
This is a frigate
They all have similar speeds and ranges the acceleration and deceleration curves now that’s where the big difference comes from. That’s how navies design there ship as ships travel in fleets
Also it makes absolutely no sense at all that a tiny ship in eve which has tiny engines can travel so fast. As the warp engines don’t propel you through space they warp space and time around the ship. A giant ship with giant engines should be able to warp space and time even more.
But you are applying naval logic to space battles. It’s not the same concept. Naval ships cannot fight in 3 dimensions nor do naval ships have the chance to escape simply by warping away. The warp speed is a design concept to allow groups to catch targets. It’s not based on naval concepts like the examples you are giving.
And if we are going simple by name… Isn’t an interceptor a type of jet which is leagues faster than any naval vessel.
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