Might be english as a second langauage though, so understandable for terms not to be quite right.
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Bad game concepts?
Once upon a time…
I ragequit for 48 hours, came back and said to myself “Never again!!!”
Straw man. Scamming has nothing to do with stupid high sec response mechanics.
Telling people to HTFU because something isn’t designed well just really shows ignorance of the real issue (which is the real issue).
that was just an example on how eve is a harsh environment specially to new players.
citation needed. are you OK? cause your response has no sense at all.
Thank you for that post. It got it all you need to know as newbro. Excellent.
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I haul my stuff from/to Hubs frequently…never got ganked once. It’s rather easy not to be…
If it’s a lot and valuable…split it up or contract some professional to do it for you.
If it’s valuable and not big,…fly something properly fitted (for cheap moneys…try a travel Sunesis <2s align and don’t do it at rush hour)
Use MWD + Cloak for bigger stuff. There is counter plays for many things.
Getting ganked at mission in HS…sure, uncomfortable…but a good training for running stuff in LS/NS…D-Scan frequently, stay aware…
Yes…EVE has problems with player retention and yes, ganking is definitely a potential problem for many newer players as well as some longer term players. But you act like it’s completely unavoidable and i just wanted to disagree on that, because from my experience with players around me - it seemingly is not.
Also - advice for newer players:
If you don’t care about max ISK-effiiciency and just want to sell your loot/ores/whatever easy and safe:
HiSec Buyback. It’s so supidly easy and it takes away all the risk of losing your loot on the way to selling it…
Yes…it costs you profits…but you get a shitload of comfort for it until you are more comfortable with the mechanics.
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You assume that people like me don’t know how to do it, when I was active in Eve I moved stuff around a lot and never got ganked however I had certain advantages that many do not, most important is a lot of free time which enabled me to wait out the most dangerous periods. But I know all the tricks and how to fit my ships. But I still say that at times you have to use the choke points and at times you have to move large volumes of stuff which is why I said what I said.
It cannot be used for everything as volume is often the issue and this is what you are ignoring.
I don’t know where you get the opinion that I think it is completely unavoidable, though certain choke points can be at times, sometimes you just cannot get the right hisec to hisec WH. Again it depends on your situation, if you have a lot of time then you can put the odds in your favour, but one has to look at what makes up the player base, not everyone is time rich.
There are a lot of things one can do here, one is quite safe in gated missions if you take the time to move away from the initial warp in. But it does depend on what you use, for example you can do that with a Marauder for example but once you hit the bastion module all they have to do is burn to you.
I always go back to the most important aspect on this issue, who wants to spend all their time in game moving stuff in such a tedious way. Many players don’t enjoy this cat and mouse stuff like I and you do, but even though I can enjoy it, if I have to do it again and again and again before I can do some more interesting stuff, I start to think that watching paint dry might be more interesting. You seem to ignore that aspect completely.
I am however respectful of your abilities.
So you basically know it, you know your way around it and it works for you…yet you still complain, that it sometimes doesn’t work? Bit of a weird way to go…
Then have someone haul it for you. As in real life…if you can’t arrange for something yourself, have someone do it for you. Either contract someone and have them worry about safety or just go the hisec buyback route for easy, quick sale of volume stuff.
Believe me - I know. I rarely have enough time to spend more then a few hours per week for EVE. I pick my things to do and do them - that’s it. So I obviously also accept, that i will not be as well off as someone who can spend a few hours each day. Why would I be? Invest = Return.
So I look for ways around it, to make the most of my time. I can’t wait for perfect shipping times for stuff? I either sell them to people who can do that for a margin or have them shipped for me. It’s not like there are no ways around that.
If you now come around with the “but newbros can’t afford hauling and don’t know about it”…well…yes, correct - the information about hauling stuff (and other things) could be better available and explained - but Buyback services are a definitely a thing for newbros. Their trading skills are so shite, that they probably loose more money to fees and taxes when selling stuff themselves instead of just taking jita-buy - 10% for example…
There are ways…
Thanks - and i respect you and your abilities. I don’t mean to berate or something.
I get your point - really. I think one of EVEs biggest issue for new players from other games is travel time and the lack of “immediate content”.
It got addressed with filaments somewhat…because you can basically sit in Jita, buy a fitted ship and fillament into content into absolute safety…but aside from that, it can be quite tedious. I agree.
But basically, if you really hate travel times and hauling…you could just sit in a hub and play from there. Don’t know how fun that is…but it’s possible.
I do think, there should be more of a market opportunity for industry players to create fitted ships for newer players at content centers. That would require those to exist…for example faction warfare to be more viable. Why not hand out ships to newer players, that are being bought and redistributed in bulk by FW-corps (maybe even NPC corps somehow?) I will not solve that issue here…but i agree, that there is room for improvement.
I don’t think ganking is an issue there, though. I think it’s the absolute dominance of trading hubs and the stasis of content. But those are essentially things, that have been in EVE forever and i don’t think breaking that apart would help the total amount of players, as you really risk losing many vets who are used to this and even like it.
they are the real devs of this great game eve online 
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I point out that to protect against this can take a lot of time and effort and while people who are time rich can mitigate the risk many players are not time rich and this makes it unavoidable for them.
Not always possible, as for buyback the game is in a inflationary state so that entails risk too, another issue is the sheer cost of that with taxes and difference between buy and sell prices, for a lot of playuers who are not rolling in ISK these hurt greatly.
I like that the game has real logistics and risk, however one has to balance it against time effort and enjoyment. I worked hard to get CCP to do something about unlimited bumping, but there are other things that need to be done to make things more interesting and create content. One very important one which would increase content is to make it so that -10 cannot dock in hisec NPC stations, forcing them to use structures and enabling war dec counter play. Something needs to be done about being able to sit tethered in total safety too, though perhaps having to have a core is a cost that makes it harder to have perches all over the place.
o7
It seems here that tears are very easily mixed up by wanting to have a discussion about something.
At least I see a few more reasonable comments the last half day.
Avaelica Kuershin: pitty you don’t go deeper into the subject of that CODE player, this is exactly what was wanted.
Spending your time waiting at a station to “grab” something, I mean, how pointless can your game experience become ?
Doing effort to draw some bad reactions (and yeah, a lot of you think this post is exactly that, by all means, keep thinking that): what a poorly developed personallity …
But it’s fun reading, especially when some claim how incredibly smart and courageous they find themselves.
At least the game is being usefull at giving some players a bit of self esteem. (or just polish the ego to an anonymous public)
Like the guy who has been playing Eve for less than a year trying to tell everyone how Eve is broken and they know how to fix it?
People keep saying it isn’t designed well. But the people saying it are the ones who refuse to change and adapt to the game. Especially when there are people literally saying “here is how you avoid getting ganked”.
Is there anything more ignorant than ignoring advice from people who actually know how to do what one needs to learn. That’s the real issue here. New players come to Eve and then proceed to tell old Eve players what’s wrong with their game.
Permaband. CCP’s in-house rock band. Original band members were CCP ArnarV, CCP Guard, CCP Nova and CCP Arkanon. Can’t remember if they’ve changed or not.
But yes, this is literally the developers of Eve Online tell people to harden up. Which should tell the people complaining about ganking all they need to know about the odds of them getting their wish.
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What is hard to do in high sec and avoid getting ganked? Set ganking corps to orange or red, watch local, fit your ship with some tank, and you’ll be fine.
When I’m not in player corp, I generally sit in 0.5 systems running level 4 missions to rebuild my ISK reserves. And I never get ganked… even when I’m hauling in loot or LP items (high value) into trading hubs.
Do you know who does a lot of risk analysis? Gankers. They scan your ship and know exactly how many ships it will take to destroy your ship. They then consider if the pay out is worth the numbers of ships they will lose. Sometimes, the loot fairy says no and they end up taking a loss; sometimes Bob blesses them and they get way more.
Citation please… and can you guarantee that the removal of ganking is going to fix this problem. Because I have evidence it won’t. One, as I already mentioned above, SWG took a huge sub hit when SOE changed their game in an attempt to attract new players; they literally lost more players with their change than they attracted.
Two, I can show you the same thing will likely happen here. Look at the number of ganking corps who might likely quit and then wouldn’t be replaced by these new players…
Emails were sent out months in advance of the change, so they were warned. Also, those players can appeal to CCP and might be able to get their stuff back. CCP has actually moved all of a player’s stuff when they came back to the game and their stuff was in a station that was inaccessible.
actually is super easy, barely an inconvenience
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Blimey, a full tactical and strategic analysis of how to avoid being ganked. A bare scratch of the surface my dear boy.
Most likely in a T2 fitted BC.
Obvious statement is obvious, more of your tactical and strategic acumen on show for others to marvel at.
-25% ROF penalty period
Analysis of the players that were trick ganked by Faylee that indicated a 60% de-sub rate of those ganked that way. It was posted by me during the lead up to CCP being purchased, but CCP Falcon removed it because it put CCP in a bad light.
Who reads email and game changes and stuff about mechanic changes on a game they are not playing. If CCP honestly thought that this covered their base then I have to question their ability to run a game even further.
Details please on what you mean by super easy, perhaps you are talkking about using a shuttle to get around?
And yet you can answer the simplest of questions: What is hard to do in high sec and avoid getting ganked?
Nope. Also, doesn’t really matter for the discussion. What really matters is the second part of what I said there: And I never get ganked… even when I’m hauling in loot or LP items (high value) into trading hubs. High value target and yet I never seemed to get ganked. I wonder why that is. Oh, yes… I listened and learned when people told me how to avoid ganks. I learned, I adapted.
So… no citation. Yes, yes… CCP Falcon removed it. But you should still have your evidence. Put it on a blog or reddit and direct it to me. I’ll wait.
I hate to tell you: my experience with living in J-space (both before and after upwell structures being added) makes me very unsympathetic. Those players knew they were leaving valuable assets in an exposed area… maybe they should read Emails if they care about their in-game stuff.
People are always questioning CCP’s ability to run Eve Online. And yet, here it is… still alive and active today. While other games that people felt were very well ran have disappeared… if CCP cant be trusted to run this game, how is it still going? And why are you still here?
I welcome people to be critical of new changes (especially the latest sudden change in nullifiers). But, for the most part, the way CONCORD works has been around since the beginning. That’d not going to change and people need to quit expecting it too.
If I wasn’t so close to getting my sec status up to 5.0 and thus making the Enforcer and Pacifier much stronger ships, I’d start using locator agents and start ganking some of these people myself. I suppose I could get an alpha account…
I have already mentioned it above, Freighters, but if you can’t be bothered to read it.
Loot from level 4 missions is hardly worth ganking and LP is not exactly going to give you a lot of mods, most Navy stuff is pretty poor. You would have to move it in an untanked T1 hauler to get ganked.
Citations given.
I would never have left items in them but I don’t trust CCP period. Note that there was no asset safety in WH space so utterly irrelevant. Many people trust developers not to do such a dick move, I would think in terms of logic for returning players they would not have expected it. The simple fact that they left the game with a system that kept their assets safe even if the structure was destroyed, and CCP changed it. It seems to be a daft decision if CCP did not evaluate the impact on potential returning player, one of the major pulls is the fact that an old player has a ton of stuff they can have fun with.
Still I am not a fan of CONCORD personally, and I would prefer changes that push players to do more of the policing, like the suggestions I made above. Imagine if there was a vibrant AG scene perhaps CONCORD could be scaled back in some way. But the present system is simple, so…
It’s still enough to be worth ganking depending on what you’re moving. The fact you think its mods tells me you actually don’t know what is worth getting from LP stores.
Nope. You made a claim. Where is the evidence to back it? As I said: you can post your evidence to a site outside the control of CCP… you have chosen not to. I wonder why…
Which is why I’m so unsympathetic. Loss is part of Eve. If you want to make sure you keep your stuff: put it in the only true safe spot: NPC stations.
And I think it’s pretty daft to leave your goods in an unpowered station that can be destroyed… especially in a game where the Devs are known to change mechanics.
But then again, I’m not daft enough to get ganked either…
Imagine the abuse of such a system. Don’t get me wrong. I think the bounty system needs reworked; kill rights need reworked. But CONCORD? Nah… if someone is getting ganked in an area where CONCORD matters, they did something wrong.
Almost forgot: you brought up freighters for ganking. Simple solution: don’t bring freighters within 5 jumps of trading hubs. Use transport ships to ferry stuff into trading hubs. It takes more time, but you aren’t going to get ganked.
Yeah… time, effort, and a little planning is all you need to avoid getting ganked. The sad thing is I don’t even own a freighter and I have already figured this out… damn, there are some daft people in Eve.
Edit: also, bringing up the whole structure situation is a red herring argument fallacy. We’re discussing CONCORD mechanics here…
This way of thinking is not a healthy mindset before logging into New Eden. What is there to punish? Your time?
Your opening thread quoted a topic from another part of this forum that holds reference to ganking in Highsec, etc.
Now some may squabble that ganking in Highsec is a form of aggressive behaviour, but there is also a passive-aggressive behaviour in many parts of Eve Online and one being selling on the Market at a lower asking price than the player who had already listed their item. Winning or losing is a part of Eve Online and understanding that by receiving aggression is not a bad game concept.
Sometimes we give and other times we receive it just doesn’t sit right thinking that we had been punished. Think of it as being taught a lesson but not “the game will punish me”, only then you will get your, “Let me grow in my game on my own”!