Some thoughts on dealing with hi-sec Triglavian recons squads

Industry Gameplay Center Mining & Extraction
1

Well, first off, let me say that it was a real phallus move on behalf of CCP to release these things into hi-sec. I can see exactly why though, after the null blackout miners moved into hi-sec and brought with them countless automated belt cleaning Orca-bots. Something really needed to be done to stop the bots, but I am not for sure turning loose squads of frigates with enough firepower to blap an AFK Orca is the right answer.

But, it is what it is, at least for the time being. What I know so far is that they are freaking everywhere and seem to be targeting industrialists and specifically have a penchant for miners. Reports are coming of Ventures getting blapped before they know what hit them and Retrievers are on structure by the time they can align and warp off. OK, whatever, but really that is not fai-, um ā€œbalancedā€ by any means.

But what to do about it? What sort of strategy can industrialists use to keep the ore flowing? Obviously Procurers, Skiffs, and Orcas are the only ā€œsafeā€ vessels that mine right now. I am going to assume based on Triglavian ship stats that fighting back solo is not really possible in anything but an Orca, or perhaps a Skiff. Alone, the Damavikā€™s supposedly have a shield of 200 HP and 720 HP armor with 500 HP on the structure. Not to difficult right? But wait, that number does not factor in their EHP from resistances. The EHP against EM damage is 2,305 total, thermal comes in at 1,877, kinetic is 1,845, and explosive clocks in at 1,829. But what makes the Triglavians such a pain the a-, err difficult is they spider tank each other with armor reps. Supposedly they also have a hard o-, uh fondness for drone aggro. So while your drones are chewing away at their armor, it is being constantly repaired, and they are chewing away at your drones, and that can get real expensive should they take out a T2.

Thinking about it, if one were to engage recon ships in a mining ship, Acolyte drones would be the worst choice out of all of them. Hobgoblins have the most raw damage, but they have the lowest HP, tracking, and velocity. Coupled with the Damavikā€™s armor resistance and aggro I would say they are the 2nd worst choice behind the Caldari and Minmatar varieties. Ultimately I think the drone of choice goes to the Caldari Hornets with their kinetic damage. They boast about 6.25% less base damage than the Hobgoblin and 13.33% more than the Vespas with the same HP as an Acolyte a middle of the road stats everywhere else. This actually runs contrary to the recommendation of thermal/explosive damage as found in the wiki and other sites. Unless the Triglavian ships are equipped with shield modules that I am aware of, it is critical to break through their armor tanks and get them into structure as quickly as possible to mitigate repping and repair.

But again, does any solo mining shipā€™s drones have enough raw damage output to break a single Triglavian recon squad shipā€™s tank with three other ships repping it and to survive 1-2 more waves? To be honest, I really donā€™t know. Iā€™m not really wanting to risk a Skiff or my Orca to find out. Ideally, if it could be done, T1 drones would be better than T2ā€™s as they are cheap and practically disposable. Orcas have a 200m3 drone bay, and that can easily poop out 20+ T1ā€™s before the drone bay needs to be refilled.

Until I see someone else go first I think Iā€™m just gonna stay docked up for the time being.

4 Likes
2

Come now.

You can mine perfectly fine in even a Covetor if you are paying attention. Mining aligned makes you invulnerable to loss. Ok, you might need to clear out a system of these Triglavian recon ships to get much mining done, but to throw up your arms and declare there is no way to mine ā€œsafelyā€ is defeatist and wrong. Sure, perhaps mining while you watch Netflix is now a little riskier, but these things donā€™t even point you so to mine some ore you just need to pay attention, and perhaps briefly switch to a combat ship to take them out.

Then perhaps donā€™t mine solo? I mean you can of course if you stick to nimble, evasive ships, but if you want to use your drones as your defensive strategy, find some friends and group up. Eve is an MMO, and Iā€™m not trying to be an ass, but not everything should be so safe and easy you can harvest resources solo while you are away from your keyboard doing your laundry in the other room. Maybe these recon ships are too powerful or commonplace to leave some space for the most risk-averse capsuleers so I am not trying to dismiss your feedback, but from a distance CCP is just restoring some long overdue balance to the game. Those belt rats that you routinely ignore in your power-crept mining barges actually once were something that forced a miner to pay attention, maybe even warp out. Itā€™s about time CCP gave the NPCs a tiny bit of teeth again.

Eve should have some space for the risk-averse and poorer players. But it also canā€™t have swathes of space that are lifeless and without danger such that people ā€œplayā€ the game while not at their keyboard. If you are too timid to figure out the new meta, do take that break and let someone else min/max things for you. Perhaps in the mean time the rise in mineral prices will help keep some of the braver newer players who now find their mining efforts pay more now that there is some actual risk to harvesting ore in highsec again.

9 Likes
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I have been using Warriors to kill them. There is no way in H#LL that a skiff or procurer could tank and kill them. The NPC do love to attack drones and kill then VERY quickly.

CCP has shut down mining any where the Trig NPC are spawning and they donā€™t care.

If you think that the Trig NPC are not letting you play your play style, then speak with your wallet!! Also tell the Dev or CCP any way you can.

7 Likes
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Iā€™ve almost lost my ships to this crap alsoā€¦ I am not an AFK miner.
These Triglavian Recon squads pop in and took out my miner drones before I could anythingā€¦ When I finally figured out how to take them on they pulled more crapā€¦ If they are RECON, why the attacks?
just finished taking on a group of them, transitioned back to miningā€¦ they popped back in, about 4, took out my mining drones and then disappeared, not warped off. flat out disappeared. total ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– . I had no time to react.
Who ever thought this is a cool idea should be fired and have a giant cactus dildo shoved up there assā€¦ Seriously now thinking of taking my money elsewhereā€¦ I deal with ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  in the real world. should not have to deal with it for a game I PAY UPFRONT.
Even friends are starting to question the competence of CCP leadership. Some have already quit the game after super bright idea to screw up Null Secā€¦

8 Likes
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Just to give an update on thisā€¦ I kept playingā€¦ gonna tough it outā€¦ lost 1bil in mining drones so farā€¦ the way they have the game now programmed Iā€™ll be able to recoup that by Decemberā€¦maybe January. Why would I want to waste my time playing just to recoup the loss that has occurred by their inept ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā– ā–  programmingā€¦
Here is a way to deal with the Triglavian reconā€¦ stop playing this game until they get their head out of their ass!
againā€¦ popped in, destroyed drones with no warning, they donā€™t show up on the screen unless you are zoomed outā€¦ and in the middle of the battle they disappearā€¦ again no warping out, just poof! gone!
They have let one serious retard program this part of the gameā€¦

5 Likes
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So, you use 1bn worth of drones to mine, which take you 3-4 months to replace when lost?

It sounds to me like youā€™re doing something wrong lol

10 Likes
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no, the NPC miner corps and others clear out the ore fields before I can login for the day. By the time get there, its slim picking

4 Likes
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I see a statement like this and just shake my head. You obviously have not interacted with them much, if at all. They immediately respawn. There is no ā€˜clear out the systemā€™ as that is impossible. I have destroyed well over 50 such recon squads and have (on multiple occasions) had the next group respawn right on top of me as I killed the last one in the first group. Unless you can safely tank over 200 DPS you probably wonā€™t last against them. I have killed them in an AF, but it required a liberal use of overheat, HACā€™s required using the ADC to kill the 5 scout spawns if sitting still. While you can ā€˜be alignedā€™ while mining, you cannot reasonably be at 75% speed (without higgs rigs) while mining, so insta-warping isnā€™t an option for most. Make sure you can get away, or you will most likely die.

So why would you offer your opinion here, if you know so little about them?

For everyone else:

  1. If using an ORCA, Skiff or Procurer - plan on tanking ~ 200 DPS, carry combat drones and be prepared to lose some. Buffer tanks wonā€™t cut it unless you gtfo.

  2. ALWAYS fit a DC (II), no matter what - the bonus buffer buys you time.

  3. Make sure they are selected on your overview (they arenā€™t by default), this is beyond frustrating.

  4. Watch dscan like a wormholer, the default to rescan is ā€˜vā€™ - use it, know what is within range of you and when you see them getting closer be prepared to warp - yes this vital skill will help you.

  5. Stick to systems with many belts/planets and structures as that is where I find them (and the sun). So their chances of finding you go down.

  6. So far I have not seen them at mining sites (the ones on dscan) or at complexes - but others have reported them @ relic or data sites - be warned.

  7. Finally, they are to highsec what the drifters are to null. They can be beaten or you can escape if you plan ahead, thus I donā€™t consider them ā€˜unfairā€™ . Just an bit of a challenge. I wish frigates could handle them, as this would make them accessible to newer players, but they do spice up the game a bit - which is always fun.

8 Likes
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TLDR details of the rats.
Before using them please check them.

rat min DPS max DPS (36s spoolup) RR effect
recon damavik 92.5 111.2 3.33 hp/s
starving 28.2 47.2 3.33 hp/s 2.5GJ/s
blinding 28.2 47.2 3.33 hp/s -15% scanres, -15% target range
renewing 26.1 43.5 20 hp/s

so one renewing+blinding+starving and 2 recon is 273 initial DPS, and 360 DPS after 36s.
advice : kill the recon damavik first. and/or prepare Uranus.

details :

Recon damavik

The base damage of the disintegrator is (61therm + 33exp) every 3s so 31.3 raw DPS of the guns without mult. Mult starts at *0.9 (so 28.2 DPS) and ends at *1.5 (so 47DPS) with 0.05 every cycle, so fully spooled after 12cycles, ie 36s.

The missile is 45em + 45kin, mult is *5, every 7s so 64.3 DPS.

The base initial DPS is thus 92.5 DPS, and ends at 111.2 DPS after 12 gun cycles, that is 36s.

The rep is 10 armor hp every 3s so 3.33 hp/s

Starving recon damavik

Neutralized instead of missile launcher, -10GJ every 4s @6+4km range.
DPS from 28.2 to 47 after 36s.

same rep as recon

Renewing recon damavik

deals only (31ex+56therm) from disintegrator, 3s delay, multiplier from 0.9 to 1.5 after 36s, so DPS from 26.1 to 43.5

rep is 60hp every 3s so 20 hp/s

Blinding recon damavik

33+61 disintegrator, like starving.
damp is -15%scanres and -15% target range.

same RR as the vanilla.

9 Likes
10

I think that this whole recon attack drone thing is an effort on CCPā€™s part to do away with solo players. The only way to fight these guys is with a fleet or a combat ship escort for your miner. I usually mine with an Orca and a Hulk, changed the Hulk for a Skiff when this started (which costs me by the Skiff having a much lower mining yield). Was just jumped about an hour ago, the Skiff had 4 T-2 drones out, a light, 2 medium and a heavy. Within seconds of their showing up, the heavy was gone. The Skiff got out and immediately swapped for a HAC and returned. The HAC made short work of the recon squad, but they did manage to kill one of its 5 Orge II drones. Losing 2 heavy T-2 drones gives them the victory cost wise.

I mine and use the minerals to build T-1 ammo/missiles and run a lot of mining missions for LP to use to up grade some of the T-1 ammo to faction. I generally haul a couple of freighters worth of ammo to either Amarr or Jita for sale each month. Spending so much time fighting these recon squads, besides costing me in lost drones and time mining, is reducing my mining yields to the point where itā€™s not worth doing anymore.

I could understand them doing something like this in low or null sec. Maybe even in a .5 or .6 system. But really donā€™t understand them doing this in a system like Iā€™m in (a .8). Ideally, they should turn these recon squads loose on the ice belts and do away with the hoards of bots mining there.

Been playing since 1/08. Not happy with the direction the game has been taking, so this may just be the last straw. Plenty of PVP games out there, which is about all this is anymore. Time to start looking for a new game I guess.

4 Likes
11

So what most people are saying here is ā€œI cannot mine afk like I was used to do because those Triglavian are Killing my mining drones and possibly my ship?ā€

Fine!

Just mine being aware, align to the closest stations and as soon as they pop, warp off or kill them if you are in a tanky procurer or skiff like you should". Also just try to regroup with others miners on the same belt, in other word, be more social and play as a team

I mine everyday and have absolutely no problems with those triglavian.

8 Likes
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Your choice of drones hurt you. Without webs, your mediums and heavy probably didnā€™t touch them. Both ships should keep a set of t1 lights with some spares. Kill the 2 recons, leave the last one and they will never respawn. Also you should have salvaged the ones you killed as that will offset the cost of your lost drones.

2 Likes
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Fantastic information, thank you so much.

1 Like
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i fly an orca and even with T1 drones i can blow them up.
The annoying part of this is that they will go str8 to the mining drones if they are out and alpha them, now, if you using augmented this will get expensive very very fast since u probably wont get them to return quick enough before at least one of them pop.
Solution!?.. I had to downgrade to T2 mining drones, as the augmented ones have skyrocket in isk, this coupled with the fact they are primary for these recons removes them from the table as a mining tool.

That said, recons are probably doing their job by lowering the ammount of ore entering the market, and forces ppl to stay at the keyboard while mining. Thumbs up overall

6 Likes
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not really sure this is their job, nor that they have any impact on this.
AFAIK a fleet of 5 procs can melt them very fast, to the point their impact on the ore production is null.

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i think it will, ppl used to afk mine in high sec (almost everyone) will now think twice before doing it, even if u have to do a 10min break, its preferable to dock up as even a orca can get killed by them in 10min.
high sec ore will be less and prices on all will increase.
And thats ok by me, i still like playing this game

1 Like
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with two recon and a mix of the other, you can consider 360 spooled DPS. that means 216k EHP removed from the orca after 10min.
Now that Screenshot at 16:36:44.png - Imgur is a mining orca fit.
60 EHP/s passive rep. 310k EHP. With a resist shield boost it goes 340k EHP. with a tanking implant I jut donā€™t even have an idea.
With ONLY a DC the orca already has 217k EHP.

And thatā€™s if there is no drone to focus on.
And no other player.
And you are not in an anom (AFAIK they donā€™t go to ice belts).

I think you are over exaggerating the impact of those rats, but I may be wrong.

Also the people who produce a lot in HS are not the solitary miner. They are the player multiboxing 20 barges in the ice belt. He will just not care about this.

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i like the solo kinda RP gameplay, so no multibox for me, by choice :slight_smile:
already tried some other stuff and will probably go with T1 mining drones, the rest just doesnt pay if a full set of drones gets blown up as i have the pc open next to me but cant keep constant watch over it.

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The real problem is not the recon squad, I can deal with it. But it respawns right away, so Iā€™m not mining, Iā€™m spending all my time fighting. No bounty for killing them and what theyā€™ve dropped so far didnā€™t even pay for the ammo I used to kill them.

1 Like
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ā€œAlso you should have salvaged the ones you killed as that will offset the cost of your lost drones.ā€

Canā€™ agree with this one. I lost 1.5 B in drones I salvaged 30 Mā€¦ They donā€™t drop much to recover.
All Iā€™m doing is taking a loss.

1 Like