State of Fabai, Aridia, and what should be done about it

[Arrendis]

That’s a lovely way of interpreting things. Allow me to offer another:

@Ascentior

It is how close your thoughts resemble reality that do you such disservice, Kernher.

This is an opening statement with no real substance to it, merely a claim to being telepathic (otherwise, you do not know what Samira’s thoughts are, merely her expressions of those thoughts. But you’re apparently far too lazy to be accurate in what you’re saying[1], so you just went for the incorrect version[2].)

@Ascentior

The Empire continues to consider merit. Just on a much grander scale than many can comprehend. It is not by accident that a family comes to power.

This is a lie. It’s a lie borne of desperate self-deception, but it remains a lie. The Empire doesn’t consider merit, it considers fealty. As has been pointed out, if you correct your so-called ‘betters’, you get disciplined. That’s pretty much the opposite of giving consideration to merit. That’s giving consideration to power.

But that’s the entire structure of Amarr society, isn’t it? Right down to the Amarr faith itself: There’s holy scripture that says you have to obey the people in power. But where’s that holy scripture come from? Well, it comes from God. How do you know? The people in power said so.

The book that claims ‘you have to obey those in power’ is infallible because of unprovable claims made by the people who directly benefit from its infallibility. And that’s totally reasonable. That’s not shady at all, right? Convenient, though, isn’t it, that the book commands obedience to the people with the book? You never come across these holy scriptures that command utter obedience to some other schmuck, some guy who flat out says ‘that’s nonsense, don’t listen to the book’, do you?

@Ascentior

It isn’t a simple roll of the dice, or trick of the wind.

No, it’s all a scam. It’s sucking up and currying favor until someone with power deigns to give you a little, and then sucking up some more to get ahead just that next little bit. Sycophancy, even over centuries, isn’t merit.

Then we get the bit that all of that builds to. Consider that fact—that all of that built to that question of ‘don’t they warrant more consideration?’, I didn’t feel it necessary to indulge myself in pointing out what a pathetic, self-serving, sycophantic little circle-jerk your society’s measure of value is, or what a hollow lie it is when you call that kind of kowtowing to the biggest swinging phallus in the room ‘merit’. But apparently, you’re so eager to smug it up that you can’t even realize I cut to the chase there, and needed to get slapped around with a cold dead fish for a few paragraphs, just the same.

Then you wank on a bit about the internal structure of PIE—and all of that is what it is. It’s your organization’s internal structure. I’ve never been a member of your organization, so I’m not exactly in a position to say ‘no, you’re misrepresenting this crap’, now am I? So I didn’t. What, you want a cookie for pointing out that I didn’t address a part of your post that would require inside knowledge I blatantly don’t have?

Eat a cow pattie and tell yourself it’s fudge, that’ll be as honest as anything else you’ve spewed in that post.

Oh, how privileged your rank and file should feel, to be allowed the honor of being your step-and-fetch bitches. After all, you’ve achieved so much, what with being born to the right families. How clever you were, how industrious, to make sure you popped out of that particular snatch.

Generational merit is, and always has been, the most efficient way to create entitled parasites who live off the industry of others. And you’re no exception. When’s the last time you led a fleet? When’s the last time you were an actual leader, instead of a stuffed frakking robe playing at being an Admiral?

Samira’s family did work hard for generations. And they were freed, but not because of that work. Not because of merit, but because another entitled prat born to power decided to use them as a political chess piece. The fact that she’s finally decided to think for herself is a testament to the success, perseverance, and sacrifices of those generations. And that you can’t dare to let yourself see that is one of the most pity-inspiring feats of stepping on your own cock that I have ever seen.

Now, again, this is all contingent upon your core assertion: that generational merit is greater than actual merit. Rather than be all long-winded and crap, I decided to just address the core assertion. Which I did. As a result, I didn’t think I needed to go and piss all over your entire pile of nonsense. But clearly, I am dealing with the brain-damaged here, so drink it down.

---

1. Maybe you’re not! Maybe you’re just stupid! I don’t know, so I put ‘apparently’ in there to indicate a level of uncertainty. You see how that works? My, accurate use of language is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?
2. This, of course, then gets defended with ‘you know what I meant’, when in reality, the only means anyone has to ‘know what you meant’ is the actual words you put down. We could, of course, assume that you mean what our minds would naturally leap to, but assumptions mean introducing room for error, and as the assumptions build up, that room for error multiplies again and again, until in short order, miscommunication is happening and both sides are getting angry at one another for not understanding. This way, I don’t have to get angry—I just accept that you’re being imprecise and call you out on it. You, of course, are free to go ahead and get angry if you like. I won’t even try to stop you. Why would I? It’s amusing when you do.

[Ascentior]

@Arrendis

I don’t know, so I put ‘apparently’ in there to indicate a level of uncertainty.

You needn’t choose specific words to indicate your uncertainty. It is absolutely apparent to all.

@Arrendis

Now, again, this is all contingent upon your core assertion: that generational merit is greater than actual merit.

In your search to find the fault in my choice of language, you ignored it all. My ‘core assertion’ is that generational merit, is “actual” merit. And only by achieving things for generations may one raise their station. Falling from said station, one can certainly achieve that in a single lifetime. This, apparently, is difficult to understand for someone who believes accomplishment can only be measured in fleet successes. How wonderful it must be to not be burdened with consideration of the future.

[Arrendis]

@Ascentior

My ‘core assertion’ is that generational merit, is “actual” merit.

Yes, I know, and I addressed that farcical claim in the post you decided to smug at and try to claim I’d ignored the rest of it.

@Ascentior

And only by achieving things for generations may one raise their station.

Tell that to Mitty.

@Ascentior

This, apparently, is difficult to understand for someone who believes accomplishment can only be measured in fleet successes. How wonderful it must be to not be burdened with consideration of the future.

No, I cited that as one example. That’s why I followed it up with “When’s the last time you were an actual leader, instead of a stuffed frakking robe playing at being an Admiral?” Because obviously, there is more to being an Admiral than battlefield command. But you evidence none of those skills, and when pressed, couldn’t even come up with an example of doing your job, Admiral Fabricator-General. Wouldn’t even have taken much! Just a quick ‘where do you think all those ships PIE fleets use come from?’ would have sufficed. But you couldn’t even manage that in your rush to ‘stop paying attention after 10 seconds’, could you?

Mind you, I would even have respected that answer. After all, one of the projects I’ve got RepSwarm working on is the creation and maintenance of our Strategic Logistics Reserve. We’re well on our way to having those 400 fitted hulls set aside, but they’re a low-priority part of things as we maintain production and contract availability for all sixteen subcapital logistics hulls at a scale large enough to meet the needs of the Imperium.

That, of course, is ancillary to my position as Director of the Sledgehammer Factory[1], our fittings and doctrines team, where my job is in fact specifically to be burdened with considerations of the future, and watching for and anticipating the evolution of the fleet meta. But again, that’s a thing that leadership is required to do, and had you come up with that kind of example, I’d have respected that, too.

But ya didn’t, didja?

I do hope you’re not an example of ‘generational merit’… because if so, you’re a pretty sterling example… of my thesis. Not yours.

---

1. The name, of course, is actually something of a pointed deflation of our own pride. In the years leading up to the Hakonen fiasco, one member of the team was allowed to push through doctrines that were very special-purpose. The ultimate example of this was our cruisephoons. It should never have happened, but I was lax in putting my foot down.
   As the team leader, I offered to resign over my failure, of course. However, my resignation was rejected. Instead, I was directed to rebuild the team with more of a focus on feedback and give-and-take. The other directive I was given, and the name exists to make sure this is not forgotten, is that ‘We Build Sledgehammers, Not Scalpels[A]’.
   A. Though of course, this doesn’t apply when we’re designing a fleet composition that actually uses the T2 Minmatar Logistics Frigate. I’d hate to be limited to Kirin. Slow, fat pieces of crap, for frigates…

[Ameriya]

@Arrendis

This is a lie. It’s a lie borne of desperate self-deception, but it remains a lie. The Empire doesn’t consider merit, it considers fealty . As has been pointed out, if you correct your so-called ‘betters’, you get disciplined. That’s pretty much the opposite of giving consideration to merit . That’s giving consideration to power .

This woman speaks truth. It also explains why people were so butthurt at my earlier post, for failing to show difference to a mass-murdering maniac.

Chakaid doesn’t intrinsically deserve respect. No one does, but least of all the ones in power. Those with power should be criticized, mocked, ridiculed, and insulted on a regular basis! (Gods, lampooning powerful figures, even liked ones is necessary to keep them from getting a big head.) So, yeah, when I asked him if he’s gotten laid recently and that he should maybe do that, the knee-jerk brigade was no doubt upset that someone would dare speak that way to the great and mighty Chakaid. He’s a holder, you know.

■■■■ him. ■■■■ anyone else that thinks they or their position or heritage intrinsically deserve respect. If I want someone’s respect, I will to out and earn it. And if I have it, but ■■■■ up in such a way that they decide to take it away, then that’s how it’s supposed to work.

So, remember, Empress Catiz has no balls. Alar Chakaid’s are just as small!

[Samira_Kernher]

@Ascentior

Consider a family that has shown merit, consistent merit, for millennia. Do they not warrant consideration above the successes of a single life of fervent service? If we only care how much one can achieve in a lifetime, our future is as fleeting as the wind.

They merit respect, certainly. But not above the actions of a living person. Because when you do, then the previous successes of the family are then used to excuse the faults of the person. “Oh, we know he comes from good stock, so we’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.” This leads to the other side were the previous failings of a family or race are used to diminish the successes of a person. The failings of a True Amarr are waved off because they are considered better than that, while failure from a Minmatar is expected because excellence is perceived as the exception. The amount of pressure and self-hatred that puts on the Minmatar is high, the knowledge that no matter what you do, no matter how good and dutiful you are, the smallest mistake will set you back by kilometers in the eyes of your peers, because it will be living down to their expectations. “Ah, there it is.” “I knew it couldn’t last.” “What did you expect from a Minmatar?”

As Arrendis said, it’s about power, not merit. King Khanid was pardoned despite in his own lifetime performing the greatest treacheries, because he’s True Amarr. Because he was powerful and we could benefit from that power. Suddenly, mistakes that would have a family enslaved for generations are swept under the rug, because of who did it. An entire heretical church – the Royal Church – is suddenly okay, and we’re all told to make nice and consider them members of our empire and faith in good standing?

@Ascentior

For a decade the Praetoria did not allow anyone of the lesser races into our midst.

You allowed Khanid and Ni-kunni. So why not Ammatar, or Amarrian Minmatar, or Amarrian Caldari or Gallente? You sabotaged their future by putting them in a secondary corporation instead of the primary one. And then when they inevitably failed or quit, “Well, what can you expect from the lesser races? Guess we’ll just close the Auxiliary Force, it was clearly a failure.”

Of course, now Sir Raphael has been given the honor to join PIE proper. And that is a step up and I am very happy for him. But it’s too little too late. PIE’s gone back to recruiting True Amarr, Khanid, and Ni-kunni only. Because they’re the only ones PIE actually expects success from.

@Ascentior

You have a family that served our great Empire for generations. They toiled and worked in the hope that you, that your children, would have a better life. That their offspring might possibly one day join the Chosen, side by side, in humble reflection of His light.

My parents were as Chosen as yours. Their being in servitude says nothing about their faith, just like being in a noble family says nothing about a True Amarr’s faith. They were Chosen by their actions, by living dutiful and righteous lives in reverence to God. Just like their parents, and their grandparents.

And after all that, in freedom even they chose to move to the Republic because they believed that our economic prospects would be better there than in the Empire.

@Ascentior

It took you less than a single lifetime to undo all their work and throw their sacrifice to the wind.

Their sacrifice was thrown to the wind the moment King Khanid and people like him were pardoned after serving exactly zero generations of slavery.

@Ascentior

That is why you are dangerous. Your desires of success and change in a single lifetime will destroy the millennia of effort that others have committed. Pull entire families off the path that would one day see them risen above and basking in His love.

God determines who has risen above and is worthy of His love, not Holders who have failed the greatest test by believing their faith was already proven.

[Elsebeth_Rhiannon]

@Aldrith_Shutaq

I stopped liking this thread about thirty posts ago. Things are getting ridiculous.

Quoted for posterity: on this, I agree with Aldrith Shutaq Newelle.

[Eclypt]

@Samira_Kernher

The failings of a True Amarr are waved off because they are considered better than that, while failure from a Minmatar is expected because excellence is perceived as the exception. The amount of pressure and self-hatred that puts on the Minmatar is high, the knowledge that no matter what you do, no matter how good and dutiful you are, the smallest mistake will set you back by kilometers in the eyes of your peers, because it will be living down to their expectations.

As excuses go, this is a poor one.

If you are challenged, or tested, if you are questioned you must rise to meet it. If you fail, or stumble, if you suffer setbacks, you must accept them as yours. You cannot hide behind feeble accusations of ‘it’s not fair’, or ‘they always had it out for me’. Such mewling surrender to your own ego’s need to shift the blame for your inability to walk the path of Righteousness is disgraceful to behold.

The scriptures remind us,

“The road to Heaven is paved with tribulation.”

You encountered hardships and you turned away. Now, you cannot even take responsibility for your own failure.

You only prove those who beheld you with skepticism as just, their concerns well founded.

[Samira_Kernher]

You know absolutely nothing about me, or what I’ve done.

@Eclypt

You only prove those who beheld you with skepticism as just, their concerns well founded.

But thank you for proving my point.

[Eclypt]

@Samira_Kernher

what I’ve done.

I know the only thing you ever did that matters for your miserable existence. I know the only thing about you that matters now.

@Samira_Kernher

thank you for proving my point.

“Though dissuaded, I came. Though perilous, I served. Though beset, I persevered. Though denied, I believed.”

[Samira_Kernher]

@Eclypt

“Though dissuaded, I came. Though perilous, I served. Though beset, I persevered. Though denied, I believed.”

And I continue to do so. I would, in turn, recommend that you Kingdomers also take the time to reflect on Kuria’s lessons.

[Cain_Aloga]

This was something I was trying to stay completely out of, there was no reason to draw me into this.

And for clarification: would you consider any Minmatar who is contracted out for mercenary work with an Amarr aligned group be considered Ammatar? Because that’s essentially the extent of my relationship with AM.

[Elsebeth_Rhiannon]

@Cain_Aloga

This was something I was trying to stay completely out of, there was no reason to draw me into this.

Sorry. You were the first current public capsuleer persona that came to mind.

@Cain_Aloga

And for clarification: would you consider any Minmatar who is contracted out for mercenary work with an Amarr aligned group be considered Ammatar?

I can maybe see that a Minmatar, flying for an established mercenary corporation, which takes a temporary contract from an Amarr loyalist organization, and deciding not to sit that one out, could maybe defend it by “just a merc here”.

Anything beyond that, basically yes, I would call it collaboration.

[Cain_Aloga]

Its funny, because that it was I have been saying when ever accusations are levied against me yet I don’t seem to be given the pass. AM has purchased my services for the time being, during which I have been shooting at other amarr aligned groups, and in no way compromizing the interests of the Republic nor our people.