Stop seeding plex and withdraw illegal injectors from players

(Aldari) #46

Why were innocent players who did not abuse the seeded injectors punished as well for something they were not a part of?

I used skill injectors that were created via extraction from my main, with intent for skill injecting into my alt for trying some other planned fittings and up coming moon stuff.
(the extractors were bought off the SISI NES, using plex that I had in my wallet from the TQ Mirror, none were sold / traded and all the sp that was extracted, was with intent for using on my alt/s)

Also, you’ve stated we wont receive sp for participating in the Mass Test if we were one of those characters that had their sp wiped.

What is the reasoning behind punishing players who used their own Skill Extractor/Injectors?

(Amarisen Gream) #47

Dude, I don’t think you understood me.

I wake up most days 30 minutes prior to downtime (5:30am for me) get ready and go to work. I don’t get home until ether 5 pm or 9:30 pm my time. I am currently 5 hours behind server. That will change with day light savings, I think.

I am saying, CCP could develop a system that rewards SP to players who test, test objectives with out needing to be to be present for a mass test. Mass test are always at like 1800 EVE time and I am always at work at that time as well as many other players. This isn’t just for USTZ, it is for all players, who log onto the test server and “test” the broken features for CCP so they can fix them and get rewarded on SISI for it.

I took your reply as a very patronizing approach to what I suggested. Yeah, CCP devs need to eat and sleep. I was just saying CCP could spend time developing tools to help them more that don’t just reward a single section of the world who can log on at 1800 eve time on a Tuesday.

(elitatwo) #48

Ah okay. Then maybe skillpoints per reported bug, just not 2 million each but if you find 10 (or so) you can get to 2 million skillpoints just not above.

(Commandant John) #49

Do this and suddenly the bughunters are spammed with bug reports that they now have to sift through searching for what actually may be a bug. Far more harm than good will come from this.

Yes it sucks that USTZ cannot participate in mass tests during the week, but there are occasions CCP has held them on the weekends. In the end it comes down to them having proper staff around for these tests and this will happen during their working day not after hours unless people are feeling generous with their time

(elitatwo) #50

:frowning: that wasn’t what I had in mind.

(CCP Goliath) #51

Thanks for the feedback, but the mass test participation reward is a thank you to the pilots who help us test - the fact that some pilots might be keen but unable to test at that particular time is regrettable, but our test needs get met with the toolset and reward framework we currently have.

Investing time in developing tools that incentivize use of the test server is extremely unlikely to happen. If we were to invest time on Sisi tooling, it would be better for us (and most players too) if we focused on making things easier/faster - e.g. implementing more commands like MoveMe - rather than incentivized.

As always, when we have very particular needs of having X thing tested, and we feel like most will not have the skills for it, we will do our best to provide assistance (be it in the form of redeemable injectors, skillbooks, or bots that input skills directly into your brain).

If people are interested in testing and working with bugs, they are always welcome to apply to join the Bug Hunter (ECAID) wing of the volunteer program.

(Amarisen Gream) #52

Thank you for your reply!

Though I am not 100% happy with the answer!

If this is the case, why doesn’t CCP invest the time? I’m rather tired of lack luster performance from the client, specially around major patch days. My computer still meets the requirements to play EVE. Maybe you guys need to update those again, and make sure to just remove support for the Mac client. As we are only a few players, and the problems we’ve been having with the Wine bundle you guys are developing/supporting was giving a few of us problems when we undocked, docked, or tried to jump gates. After like a month or two of the issue, we finally got a reply saying that it was probably due to the fact that the game was trying to use to much ram, and as EVE is 32 bit it looks at all the other operations going on with the ram and crashes as the max ram on a 32bit system is 3.5 gig. The original reply was to downgrade the version of wine we where using, and that came from a GM not a dev.

I would say, that I am sorry for being hard on you guys, but I am not. It just upsets me, when people have the ability to do things a better way (edited: your opinion says that adding in slash commands would make a difference), they don’t always choose it.

Best of luck finding all those lovely bugs.

(CCP Goliath) #53

Sorry buddy, little misunderstanding here. I was talking about players testing features on Sisi when I said “easier/faster”, not making changes to client performance. We invest a bunch of time every release in performance testing and tweaks. Also yes, aware that memory consumption on Wine is high - the solution for this to the best of my knowledge is a wide-scale optimization of the memory usage of the EVE client, which is no small undertaking. I’m not really sure what “data points” you’re using, or what you’re advocating for, in the last paragraph though - if it’s still the incentivized testing, I believe I made my case pretty well.

(Amarisen Gream) #54

I’m sorry as well. Life is a little frustrating right now with work, and my message contained to much of my frustration.

For that last part - if you guys can add more /commands what ones would you look at adding to make things easier. Biggest thing I’m trying to advocate is that we could probably use more tools to make testing easier on everyone, and thus work out more bugs, which makes the updating of TQ less prone to cause butthurt and headaches. If it includes rewards or not doesn’t really matter to me. The reward part was an idea to the OP complaining about how CCP goofed up and seeded injectors and stuff.

(Smuff Gallente) #55

I have just one comment and CCP feel free to delete it /Redacted/ people always complain about Stuff on SISI god knows i’m not guilt free in this. but christ on a cracker it wont affect ur ability to test new feature if u go to a system other then the SISI system in syndicate if u dont want droped on by massed supers or dread’s then don’t go into the combat sites

(elitatwo) #56

I have a solution for that. Make PV-H8Q the only system on SiSi where you can wonder about your capitals and sooper doopers. Remove capitals and all capital components from the “seed market” script and remove /moveme from the list of things a capital pilot can do.

Begone your sooper doopers.

(Basil Vulpine) #57

That’s a terrible idea as people actually like using SiSi for privately testing things with capitals and supers. They don’t go anywhere near PV- or similar.

(elitatwo) #58

Soopers don’t need “testing”. They are just annoying. Everyone can press FONE, no “testing” how large your ship is is required.

(Basil Vulpine) #59

You were talking about capitals as well since you mentioned dreads.

Amongst other things we run Rorqual stress tests on SiSi. For DPS application it’s easier to add a few dreads even though you need subcaps to properly replicate the effect of neuts. Your suggestion kills that.

Even if you narrow it down to supers / titans SiSi is a much better place to get used to travel related factors and get a gut feel than TQ will be for obvious reasons. Then add on being able to use supers/titans as targets so that you can give Dreads and FAX pilots something to practice with and get a better feel for things.

Yes you are unhappy with what happened. That doesn’t mean you should aim to change large swathes of things that are miles away from where you will ever travel to. There are much better ways of fixing the problem like, say automating a /copyskills ever time a character logs in. What, that stops you from testing out skills you don’t have yet? Huh, look, another unexpected side-effect but this time impacting you. It’d kill skill injector abuse on SiSi stone dead though!

(Dylan Jonferson) #60

Apparently the definition of test and testing is lost on you. Please comment when you have learned the meaning of the word. Just because something is a feature on the live server does not mean that the test server. a server designed for and is ideal for test. Do you honestly think the intelligent way to test a ship loadout is to drop billions of hard earned isk on tranquility markets? If you do, you are a moron and like i said you need to learn what the word test is.

(Keno Skir) #61

It depends if they use input broadcasting. If they do they should all be perma-banned.

(Morrigan Laima) #62

The ability of players to reproduce any desired set of skills, ships, and modules at no risk and at no cost is probably the largest driving factor in player participation on SiSi. This sort of testing is vital to FCs, tournament participants, and many others, even if it’s not the official purpose of Singularity.

Without the “playground” aspect of SiSi, the number of people with an installed client will likely decline, and CCP will start to see difficulty in mass tests and in soliciting player feedback on new features. Unless it’s an eagerly awaited “jesus feature”, very few players actually care enough to come try out a feature on the test server. We’d much rather wait until things are live to pick it apart and flame the developers for the next 6 months to a year on the forums, Twitter, Tweetfleet Slack, and Reddit.

The official combat areas in 6-C, are simply a place to lose ships, that’s all. The fairness of those areas really does not matter whatsoever in the grand scheme of things. Remember, this is still EVE Online we’re talking about, a game in which the only things that even remotely resemble a fair fight happen during the alliance tournament. “Gudfites” are as rare as officer spawns in highsec, because the vast majority of players will only willingly take a fight if they feel absolutely certian it will be a slam dunk.

There is however nothing stopping you from using the combat areas in the other systems, where it’s less of a “capital blobs online” experience or from setting up consensual combat in another system of your choosing, under whatever rules you and your friends can agree to, perhaps one far removed from the designated combat areas.

(Morrigan Laima) #63

How about introducing some more meaningful and lasting awards for mass test participation?

Exclusive SKINs and medals on TQ would be the most obvious rewards, perhaps given out quarterly according to some sort of tiered system?

Maybe even a rare skin that can only be received for finding and properly reporting a bug while it’s on SiSi?

(elitatwo) #64

And switch the sooper-dooper system to pvh8-0 and let the cool kids do actual testing of real ships in 6c.

(Frostys Virpio) #65

What they really need to do is choose a rule set and enforce it with a sledgehammer when people break it. You break the rules of the test server? Grats, your account is now also suspended on the live server. It’s a test server anyway not a second playground to have riskless fun.