Suggestions for changes to Eve

Before I even suggest changes to EVE, I have some concerns that older players are often hostile to suggestions for change. The canned response seems to be “find another game”. Not only that but the CCP employees and developers see suggestions as complaints. I am not sure I would want to suggest anything in that case.

While this is true regarding player response, the type of suggestion makes the difference. Often suggestions fall into two categories: a) dumbing down the game so I can to X in peace or b) mechanic change proposals due to lack of knowledge about the implications someone would know who played a bit longer than a few days.

Think of this. You are invited to the muppet show, and “we” are Waldorf and Statler :slight_smile:

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See, and i would say the risk needs to match the profit. For just a very little risk null sec gets way too much profit.

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Yeah, and there are new sites in lowsec, with a big risk but almost no reward.

In general I would be a bit cautious in criticizing low-risk situations created by players. If it’s mechanics, ok.

No doubt. lol

Didn’t they lack the programming ability to deliver on anything truly new in the game?

No, we got pants in the fancy space dock.

Bring that back at least.

At least it made my ship look big there.

Lol, people who can’t convert an integer into a floating point really have issues. As soon as they conquer that I am sure it will be back. Since they created a Mac version of the game with a lot of help from Apple guru’s maybe they will stop using statistics to tell that story and build off the conversions made.

Allow apparel cross dressing of characters, that should boost revenue multiple fold.

Also, more face paint.

Missile paint, more laser colours and pants for ships.

A novelty horn for my ship won’t go amiss either.

Well, there are players that don’t like change. However, I disagree with the notion that the pushback against player suggested changes is always unwarranted.

For example, a lot of ideas get ripped apart by the community because:

  • the change intentionally or inadvertently hurts someone’s (or a lot of people’s) play style(s)
  • little to no justification is made for the change (i.e. “It would be interesting if…”)
  • the change is designed to increase the afk-ability of Eve
  • the change is designed to increase krabbing safety at the expense of PvP, emergent game play opportunities, and player interaction.
  • the change will have consequences that OP either downplays or failed to consider in the first place
  • the change lowers the skill ceiling or raises the skill floor
  • the change is designed to lower the impact of player skill on outcomes, and increase the impact of skills, ship cost, and/or P2W.

I know having your ideas be criticized can be hard, and the fact that many players can be exceptionally aggressive and harsh when commenting doesn’t make things any easier. However, I do encourage you to post your ideas, as the discussion that results can help refine the idea into something better. Moreover, it gives us something to mock… er, I mean discuss :stuck_out_tongue: .

So, the main thing is just try to have a thick skin about it. I know some guys are good at making biting comments, but the truth is that insults are usually less a reflection of the person they’re being targeted at, and more of a reflection of the person saying them.

Oh, and on a side note, if your idea is largely ignored. That’s actually a pretty good sign. It’s the bad ideas that tend to generate a bunch of comments.

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Well if you don’t mind me saying then that list is rather arbitrary based on your own values in the game.

This is exactly my point. Almost all players suffer from group think. Any idea will likely fit this list just by sheer confirmation bias alone.

Humour me and come up with an idea that i can’t shoot down using your list. If you can do that then you have made a valid point. How does that sound? I expect you to say no, or give some excuse why you can’t participate because you know i am right.

i would say the list is based on experience of multiple threads containing suggestions.

The issue isnt so much the suggestions themselves often. Its the blinkers on the suggestor that often creates the issue. A typical thread would be like the following

“hey, this is my super great idea. What do you think”

“have you considered how your super great idea would impact this group of players?”

“it doesnt matter it will be fine.look…….super great idea.”

“yes but if it was implemented this would likely happen”

“you dont know that you just dont like change”

Thread then descends into a farce.

The fact of the matter is that most changes will always have effects deeper than the actual change. And its not just player suggestions that come under fire. Have you seen the threads on the CCP mining changes?

Bottom line a change that benefits one group of players will always impact another negatively and hence no change will ever be universally accepted as a good thing.

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The list isn’t arbitrary. Many players propose a lot of objectively bad ideas because most players have no experience in game design, have perspectives limited to their play styles and values, and because game design is really ■■■■■■■ hard. I mean, who knew? And even the ideas that aren’t objectively bad can still get a lot of criticism because they would push Eve in a direction that other players are opposed to.

Anyway, here’s an example player idea for you. Naturally, there are a ton more. However, I am not going to spend the next hour searching through the forums looking for them all.

I also think it would be a mistake to say that we fall victim to group think. True, many forum regulars tend to share many values, however, that is not the same as participating in group think. I assure you that we are quite capable of engaging in independent thought, and that we do disagree with each other all the time.

And this is my opinion, but…

Forum Regular Values/Mindset:

  • HTFU
  • Big Changes and Shake Ups
  • High Risk, High Reward Game Play
  • Active Game Play
  • Player Skill
  • “Emergent PvP,” “Non-Consensual PvP,” or whatever you want to call it

r/Eve Values/Mindset:

  • Bitter Vets
  • Predictability and Stability
  • Low Risk, High Reward Game Play
  • AFK Game Play
  • N+1 and Ship Cost
  • “Real PvP,” “Consensual PvP,” or whatever you want to call it

Needless to say, suggestions (or other posts) that reflect the values of those communities will get a better reception than those that go against them. So, if you think a particular suggestion might appeal to the values of one of those communities, you might have better luck by posting to that particular platform.

Disclaimer: neither community is a monolith. However, both communities, as an aggregate, tend to lean towards particular values/mindsets.

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Only if the idea is bad.

Exemple of a bad idea:

I haven’t yet gone through a lot of the threads to know where the good ideas are located off the top of my head but they’re there I’m sure.

A lot of the drama happens when a poster does not want to recognize that his idea would not work or that it would hurt the game, sticking to it like to dear Life.
A good policy when suggesting new ideas is to check your pride. A bit of humility is necessary so that the thread doesn’t devolve into the ridiculous, like that of the quoted example above.

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If there was a comprehensive Eve Online Manual, how many pages would it be? For heaven’s sake, stop adding pages, much less chapters!!! And quit invalidating ALL the current pages.

Oh, and could you make a single Venture or Thrasher uninteresting to your #@%$^#$ bot killers!

Did you think about reshaping your approach? Don’t propose a solution on a weak basis (as you are in the Newbro forums), but try to find out what’s the core problem, and discuss how this can be solved without reprogramming the game? This approach is much less arrogant and less prone to hostility.