Suicide in highsec, senseless and merciless

Council Of Stellar Management Assembly Hall
317

This is close… Morals more or less go with your conscience, everyone but a few people are born with a sense of right and wrong. There are a rare few that have been found that do not have this, others that do but choose to ignore it. (for selfish reasons) This is one of the factors that come into play with people that are found guilty in society, having remorse may have a lesser sentence and possible getting out early as well.

Specifically with gaming, you will find a chunk of players that throw out their morals with the thought of “it is just a game”, and entertain a fantasy of it that they would not do so in real life. So this is an expectation found in many games where players live out a fantasy in where their choices have no real life impact. I’m sure there are studies that highlight players of this nature and how it affects them in real life, I expect some are unchanged, while others may change their real life behavior. I’ve not looked into this much more than seeing an article pop up here and there, but this is what it is and especially in an open world game of any type, to be expected.

Specific to Eve, it could be further guided in Hi Sec, so less immoral activities can be carried out, but that is at the whim of the game devs. The older devs definitely had a sense of game mechanics, vs circumventing them to be immoral, and that is why they would patch specific things to make Hi Sec safer, but that is no longer the case. The game has gone to hard to gank in Hi Sec, with a bigger push on risk vs reward by how the outcome would penalize you, to what it is now. Even though much of it existed before, those game mechanics where not used in the manner and frequency they are now. I am of the thought the original devs would have changed something to make it have a bit more penalty to balance risk vs reward for Hi Sec gankers.

When I look at some of the changes over the past few years, I see many that were done to fix something, but caused other issues, and further patched again, which didn’t help, and made things worse. IE War Decs on any player corp, and how it affected merc corps. Instead of fixing it, the current changes have basically wiped it out as you can hide industry behind a corp that can’t be war decced, removing a way to leverage another indy corp vs it’s competitor. As someone who has made billions in industry, I certainly understand how impactful this is, and it should be a part of the game. So I 100% see changes that should be reversed, not “corrected”, with changes that actually don’t address it.

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318

Before I even get into any of my ships and fly anywhere. That is exactly what I do. Even mining in my corps home system. I pay attention to the intel channel. See how many ships have jumped into and out of the system.

And doing exploration, going out to pick something up even in the next system over. I do all what you have posted. It is one of the reasons why I have lost only a few ships in my year of playing. Though in one instance I was cracking a can at data site and it blew up. LOL But the rest. I knew better and still did something stupid. Compliancy has been the leading cause to my losing ships.

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319

We don’t know the players behind the keyboards. Who are we to judge them based on their game play.

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320

Actually I am a retiree. That raised a family. Worked at various jobs. Even made it to supervisor. Was the guy at work that trained others. Could run most machines. Was easy to talk to. I am just a man not really different from most. Though I read voraciously and have since I was 10 or 11.

One of my hobbies is play tabletop RPG’s. I have played everything from a ruthless rouge/thief/assassin to a kindly mage to naive paladins to a power hungry characters. In the WOD werewolf I play a werewolf that hunts vampires. Whose tribe is at the bottom of the social ladder in the garou nation. He defends the weak and destroys those that would harm his friends and family.

For me this no different. Am I a ruthless arms dealer in game? Sure why not. As the miner in that one mission explains money is king. If selling to gankers makes me some Isk. Then i am all for it. When I put something on the market.

I am not worrying over who is buying that ship or whatever ship components or any of the ammo/missiles/guns. It does not concern me in the least bit. The player that blew me out of the sky a few months ago may have been flying a ship that I built and sold. I got complacent and that was on me. It is part of the game. You have to be OK with losing a ship or you will not last.

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321

Don’t hate the player… hate the game :stuck_out_tongue:

That is why people shouldn’t get upset … at least to gankers. It is the devs who make it possible, the players are just making use of what is at hand. Even if you don’t like being ganked, specifically in Hi Sec, which I don’t, but more specifically think it is currently unbalanced. Everyone should see it as someone taking advantage of the game in front of them … gg to the gankers. Just like someone manipulating the market for something you are selling, or an Alliance taking sov from yours… ect ect. So those RAWR responses to gankers… should be directed to the devs. Unfortunately I am guessing most just quit instead of doing that.

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322

I could potentially get behind making ganking in Highsec a harsher penalty. But what would that harsher penalty look like and how would it affect over all game play. Would have to be answered before I would support that change.

323

Bring serenitys punishments here. Break a rule, mine so much M3 before you can do other activities

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324

First I think they need to pull the safety from war decs for any player corp.
That alone might fix it by providing merc/pirate corps with more opportunities they once had, making Hi Sec ganking not as common.

A thought I threw out in my first post of this thread -

-Perhaps a 24 hour window to use stargates and undock from ANYTHING in hi sec after ganking. Can still clone jump to Lo Sec and below. This would of course remove off the cuff suicide ganks, as they will make sure the target is nice an juicy and worth their time. Entry to Hi Sec by wormhole is still an option.

I think there are better options that could address the issues that came about due to patch changes, without causing other issues. It’s more about finding a better outlet for those players that camp the area around Jita like a pool of sharks.

325

No, I was writing about you personally, not about some abstract Somali pirate. It’s unlikely that you pirate in real life. Therefore, you personally should refrain from trying to harm other players. What’s not clear here?

326

Its a god damn video game. What he does in real life means nothing.

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327

I’m not even sure where you are going with this…

But the one of the big rules in Eve is Might makes right. No matter your morals, it’s about using the game mechanics, to bring about the reality of what you want in the game.

I do agree Hi Sec should be a “safer” area… but not by much.

I think when you take your debate for Hi Sec ganking and add other things such as morals ect, you are hurting the foundation of your argument.

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328

What is not clear here is why i have do defend myself now? I did not shoot you as far as i remember anyway. I was just analyzing and discussing your arguments and tried to point out their very flaws. And just a little discussion was needed to put you deep in a troubled labyrinth of your own logic chain.

So please again, go back to the beginning, right to your loss and check if the attacker has legitimately killed you with respect to all your personal rules. You have not verified this. It could be that he/she had every right to kill you according to your personal ruleset and that this whole forum thread is completely unfounded and should have never been started in the first place.

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329

If we don’t know the players at the keyboard, it doesn’t mean we can’t judge humanity as a whole. Immanuel Kant believed that people are slaves to their genetics. He called it the categorical imperative. However, modern research shows that he was wrong. An example is children raised by wild animals. They have no imperative of human behavior, moral behavior.

330

You might have.. Sorry I missed it. However I think your idea needs a more work. I am not familiar enough with the game to point out the strengths or weaknesses of your idea.

It looks like you might have something of an idea here that might be a good one.

Though I am still a newish player and hardly a vet. I would think the next step might be to discuss it in a different thread or at least DM a CSM and maybe a Dev?

I know that they get flooded with people having ideas every hour of every day. Still it might be worth a shot.

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331

In fact, you are a little worried about who you sell the ships to, because you have thought about this topic. And that is already good. By compromising with your conscience, you understand that you become a little worse for it. If the compromise is small, then it will not spoil you much.

332

You don’t owe me anything at all, and I don’t owe you anything. And I’m not discussing any specific incident that happened to me. I’m discussing the problem as a whole. Use common sense. Are there a lot of arms dealers and Somali pirates among the players?

333

Exactly. The other day I ran into a tabletop gamer. A minister IRL. A real nice guy. But his character is one ruthless, snarky, will step over your character bleeding body to pick up a copper coin bstrd.

Yet to look at him and talk with him. He is just this mild mannered soft spoken guy. Who works at a hospital and at a hospice as one of the on call ministers.

What I am IRL is different from what I play in game. Though yes, I choose to make my 'toon look like an old man. Maybe as a fun house reflection? Maybe. But what I do in game is far different from what I act when not in game.

New Eden is a ruthless take no prisoner hyper capitalist simulator. One where in the Devs own words at this years Fan fest is a “place where might makes right”.

If a player is having trouble getting behind that idea. Then, yes, that player is going to have some real troubles.

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334

That’s right, I have a hard time accepting this idea. Because I think about how much harm I’m causing to another player. It’s a very slippery slope. So, I write that the idea of ​​the game as a whole is immoral. However, the players themselves have already rejected it. The existence of large corporations is based on trust and on the moral principles accepted in human society.

335

LOL no have no worries about who buys from me or what they do with it in fact. Game balance is one thing. Yes ganking in highsec should be more than just my ship gets blown up and then i jump into the next catalyst for a rinse and repeat.

As a dev said in answering a question fan fest. “In the game might makes right”. You have a problem with that. Then, yes, you are going to have troubles in the game.

For myself. I am learning as much as I can where I am for now. One day I might be in a corp that will have dec’d UNI. I will have no problem in blowing one them out of the sky. In fact I might even message that player and thank them for the fight. Whether I win or lose.

When in a class. Someone brought that very issue up and was told. That should that happen. There will be no hard feelings. It is a game. That players are encourage to learn as much as they can and then go off to other corps for experience of what other corps do.

At the end I am by own admission a filthy industrialist. One that sees Isk and opportunity. When Goonswarm was in the middle making its major move.

I thought there was going to be a major war. After all how many times does the Imperium move everything including the kitchen sink to new digs. I figured with my then current skill set and BP’s I had on hand. I could make upward of a sweet half to a billion Isk. That fight sadly never took place and lost that potential ISK. ahh well. These things will happen.

Still over time I made Isk, so there is that. If there is a major war brewing somewhere. I want to know about it. Cause that means opportunity. Might makes right and Isk is king. If you have a problem with either of that. That is a you problem. Me I am perfectly happy to make Isk off those who fly and blow up ships. It is just Isk in my pocket.

336

You need to learn to separate reality from virtual reality. Do i think about people on the otherside of the keyboard? No. They chose to play this harsh virtual reality

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