Obviously it would have to pay for the build cost of a Dread within less time then it will take to feed the ship into a Bomber fleet. Whaling will become quite popular again if there is sieged Dreads everywhere.
Thats at least 3 billion per hour to even considder it viable.
Hereâs my opinion re rewards:
Not too dissimilar to the payouts for anom ratting with caps in the past. Numbers might be a bit light given the sites are riskier than anoms with the new map mechanic.
My problem with the sites is at present supers/titans arenât going to clear them more effectively than a dread due to HAW removal / fighter tracking nerfs. Youâd need capital rats for the rewards to scale with hull cost or titans/supers to be a true power step up from dreads in a pve domain which suggests rolling back some of your changes of the past - which to be fair were awful changes anyhow, so that gets my vote.
EDIT: Thinking about it, the above numbers are way too light, can make more in sub 5b fit subcaps running abyssals which is going to be the real challenge to balance this content, why cap rat at such a high risk when you can make significant isk more safely in high. Leaving my numbers in place to promote discussion anyhow, shoot me down people!!
Considering that you can make more ISK in a Gila for a lot less invested ISK and risk than you could ever do with a carrier or even a super carrier in null sec, the rewards should be on par with at least T4 or even T5 Abyssals. You risk a 7B ship (capitals) or 30 to 200B ship (supers, titans) that are significantly harder to replace (ISK wise as well as in terms of producing the ships) than a Gila or Cerberus for Abyssal space.
Since you can apparently easily farm 200M/hour in frigates in Abyss space or 600M and more in Cruisers, the rewards for this much riskier PVE (you are in open space, broadcast your location throughout the entire system, are warpable, canât hide in dscan-immune deep safes, and are locked in place due to NSA, Siege, doomsdays) should be at least in that ballpark. And that means âreliably in that ballparkâ and not dependent on volatile item values that can go up and down (more likely down due to influx volume) so that you can run this reliably and not only when the rewards are ticking up again due to supply shortage.
Just had a single go at this last night, interesting concept! Ran it in a standard full-ratting fit Thanny.
First, I like the hold-down timer. Gives some real risk, means I can start hunting again with more hope of finding caps.
Second, I like the new rogue drone ships, does this mean more rogue drone skins coming for all the new ships?! Exciting times.
Third, damn that triple BS spawn hurts! Iâm liking the DPS / tank / AI profile of the new rats. Raven hits hard but melts pretty quick, Eagles will kite away etc. This will get solved PDQ of course, but still good to see some new NPC assets being rolled out.
Fourth, overall amount of DPS coming at you seems pretty solid. I feel like a solo carrier would be viable with the right fit, but definitely doable as a duo of carriers. Not sure what others were doing but while rats did switch to fighters it wasnât unmanageable once I realised they were doing that - lost half a flight before I realised what was happening, then only a couple of others as I was working them like in PvP.
Finally, as to reward⌠This is gonna be the tricky bit! Iâm guessing that the more of these you drop, the higher the interference rate, and the spicier the spawns get? If so, this is a nice bit of balance - will keep the solo / small groups moving to less-defended space to get the easier runs while forcing more targets into the concentrated ratholes. How that will play out remains to be seen - is it possible to get a range of interference values set in a few constellations around some good moveme spots so thereâs space to try these out without interfering with each other?
As to values, letâs look at things systematically. I do like that the bounties essentially pay for the deployable, and then new blue loot pays the profit. A solo carrier would be doing 125-150/hr, super double that in the pre-DBS days. So, 0 interference sites should be paying out around 100m for the easiest spawns, then scaling up from there. Kinda want to see what a 100% interference site will throw at you, but if you need fax support and multiple supers, each pilot is gonna want at least 200m and probably more like 300m for risking their big toys. Obviously very interested in that 10bn haul reported above - that seems pretty extreme, though obviously that was full officer mod drop, and they sell like gold-plated toilets: every so often someone buys em, but only once their cash exceeds their common sense.
Overall, very interesting new content! Could be some great gameplay around hunting site runners and timing the kill for as the site finishes. Also like someoneâs idea of swooping in and blapping the beacon, though be interesting to see some consequence of this (maybe concord/empire standings hit?). Will try em again tonight once the first round of fixes go in, try and get some buddies with supers on sisi to come along and roll out a Rev. Will also try out a few carrier fits, see if I canât get a solo completion.
The comparions with abyssals are highlighting a key issue with abyssal PVE - why take any PVP risk at all when you can make high income in instanced content?
They undermine any content in LS/NS/WH that doesnât happen in a deadspaced site or rolled off in a farmhole.
Dude what have you been smoking and where can i get some?
First of all, these sites are for Dreads only. A Carrier canât tank it and will lose all fighters. Heavys wonât even track most of the rats and HAW Titans are no longer a thing.
You will sit sieged on top of a warpable beacon for half an hour.
If you do that for 200m per hour you wonât be flying Dreads for long.
No. They arenât. You can even use subcap fleet if you want. Capital is only needed to start te beacon. And thatâs why it needs to go back to drawing board.
And why would you put a fleet on grid to do solo content?
The Paladin i tried melted in a few seconds so getting this to work would be quite the pain in the ass.
Also youâre warp locked untill the first spawn. I would not rely on getting out.
Where it says itâs solo content?
Noone said you canât split loot and feed multiple ships in one site to gankers.
Itâs just kind of dumb.
I donât think you read to the end of my post before replying?
Agree regarding numbers needing to be higher, disagree that they are designed to be Dread only content, not sure where you picked up that inference, the blog suggests otherwise so I suspect the current design will change to make supers/titans viable, maybe a variant with dread/carrier rates etc.
If capital PvE is finely implemented, itâll be one of the pillars of large alliance farming activity. DBS was introduced to balance some of the density issues arising from that activity. Why is capital farming designed in a way that does not interact with DBS? If these sites pay well, we could be back into the hurtful feedback loop of bigger umbrella â money/people for more caps â bigger umbrella.
Relatedly, ESS/DBS/sov upgrades etc are elements that make geography matter. Abyssal PvE and this new PvE ignores geography. I know there are organizational and technological reasons at CCP motivating some teams into designing new features rather than working on existing, old ones. But that results in parasitic feature development, making this video very relevant.
One team tries to address issues and create a more interesting ecosystem with DBS, another adds a system that does not interact with others (DBS, anomalies) but actually takes away from the interestingness DBS, anomalies and sov upgrades. Addressing existing ecosystemic issues with new features might be less costly and more acceptable wrt internal CCP politics, but then itâs very hard to design new features in a non-parasitic way, coherent with one another. Itâs frustrating to see new features being developed while ignoring essential ecosystemic principles of Eve.
Other examples of the same issue:
How triglavian filaments are used to safely extract PvE fleets, stranded ships and assets about to be evicted.
How extremely high reward Abyssal PvE is still being run in hisec.
Lastly, supercarrier/titan farming was halted due to Scarcity era changes. These sites attempt to alleviate that. But the way the sites and the payouts are designed, there is no reason to bring a titan/super over a HAW dread.
would also be cool CRAB module for miners.,⌠you have X amount of time to mine X amount of ore,once cleared then more asteroids come better quantity. ofc rats would spawn (rorqual pilots would have hic spawns, ehumer/barge pilots would meet npc interdictor spawn⌠the miners CRAB would payout 10 times less than capital CRAB but still pay plus you have the mined asteroids
All this comes down is: CCP Rattati and CCP Psych know exactly and perfectly well how to balance the game. 
Not sure if seriousâŚ
Because they know the DBS is a dogshit system meant to target large alliances but instead hurts smaller groups who cannot spread out to avoid the penalties and they know it. They wonât admit it, but they know itâs crap and needs to be scrapped.
After playing for a few hours with that feature i would like to put forward a few small suggestions:
beacon life time is now 1h, I like it, it solves some of the mentioned issues.
That is not possible because it would depress the prices for capitals which should stay high.
CCP should potentially consider changing the aggro mechanics so that the NPC donât immediately switch from their previous target that has been killing them for 10 minutes to a new char on field. With the ridiculous DPS of these rats there is no way that a bomber can light a cyno and bridge something in to attack the capital.
How much content did you have 4 years ago? How much content do you have now? Is the economy that much better for losing all that content?
DBS was a mistake and I think theyâre beginning to finally realise it.
Game needs sinks, leave the faucets alone. Thatâs what other MMOs do. If you want to reset the game economy you donât decrease currency rewards, you increase them in proportion with sinks. Gold rewards near double with every Blizz expansion, it took me 6 months to earn 1k gold in vanilla WoW for an epic mount, I can make that in 2 mins in the most recent expansion. Yet it still takes months to earn epic mounts today like it did 16 years ago, they just cost 500k gold instead of 800g.
Eve needs a sink that dynamically increases over time, like mount / gear / repair costs in WoW.
Inflating up gradually erodes veterans financial superiority over new players. DBS means a new player will need years to catch up to my in-game wealth. If rewards increase, their ability to catch me improves. Take it to the extreme, if missions rewarded 1b isk, new players could reach parity with vets fairly quickly. It would be a terrible idea without a dynamic sink to counteract it, but it would level the playfield between new player and those with virtually unassailable wealth.
I personally think youâre wrong.