nah
what is there to fear from unlimited content?
it’s only a recipe for fun 
1 Like
Well this is true of most things in game. Even PvP, the FCs will look at a situation and estimate the risk. If one side doesn’t have the numbers/edge/etc. then the FC will stand down the fleet. With things like cynos and wormholes and other things it estimating the risk is harder in places like NS.
And carebearing is not figuring out your risk and taking the appropriate actions. In fact that is the antithesis of carebearing. The carebear is a Bad™ who loaded his freighter with 7.35 billion ISK, anti-tanked his freighter, and then flew it through Niarja without even a scout…and when ganked comes and cries on the forums. Even if the guy sucked it up, said to himself, “Well that was dumb of me,” and moved on and learned I wouldn’t consider him a carebear. Carebear is more of an attitude than what you do in game, IMO.
Yes, exactly. The solo freighter pilot who has filled his hold with 7.35 billion in loot, anti-tanked his freighter, and is not using a scout and even refuses chats when people try to warn him of an in-coming gank (and even blocks the person trying to warn him)…he has just but a big ginormous target on his forehead with a “Kick me I’m a moron” sign on his back. Of course he is going to die if he is this foolish. In fact, when found out…he kinda deserves it. At least nobody should feel sorry for him. It is like feeling sorry for the guy who gambled away his life savings in Vegas at the craps table. In fact, the person is taking on so much risk one should pause and ask…“Is this person a risk seeker? Does he actually enjoy that much risk?” Because that is exactly how they are acting.
All innovations look obvious in hindsight. Both in game, and IRL.
To make something more interesting you need both sides to do that. The problem is there is not much of an incentive for anti-gankers. Gankers we know why they do it, 7.6 billion in cargo translates into an expected drop of 3.8 billion ISK. And when you need 20 guys to do it…that works out to say 190 million each…or about 18-19 more catalysts.
What does AG get? Not a nice fat lump sum ISK payout that is for sure. Coming up with a way for AG to get some sort of benefit would help…but then see the part above about the insular and imprudent and foolish nature of freighter pilots. Frankly, I don’t get why anyone would want to help such doofii. In fact, in a strict sense culling such weak members from the herd is not a bad thing, IMO.
Okay, this is not quite correct. There are, more or less, two possibilities. Solo freighter pilots would adapt or they’d go extinct. Freighter pilots who are part of a PvP alliance…they have by and large have adapted already, or they do after that first freighter loss. The solo ones…my guess is most would simply rage quite. Some might join alliances that could help not die. So the result could be far, far less ganking. The reason is simple, the easy targets would go extinct or they’d adapt leaving not much to gank.
1 Like
Apart from having to listen to people whining about their profession and the incredible boredom caused by too much cargo scanning, gankers have a pretty relaxed life and kind of guaranteed income. Take Concord away and that doesn’t work anymore. There is no way their T1 frigate scanners could sit all day at some gate without random people popping them. As you said, gankers would probably change into more of a gatecamp setup and that’s more tedious than having one guy scan all day and gank chars only log in if a target is found. Besides that it would also mean the general end of freighter hauling, as no one in their right mind would continue doing it. So it won’t happen. Meh 
Gotta say, I’m really impressed with the endurance people show in this thread. Both G’s and AG’s and everyone who has no faction. We’re all ■■■■■■■ crazy, I hope you guys know that.
1 Like
No, last time I pointed that out the response was “What, suffer consequences for my actions!?!?!?!” So the answer is generally, “No.” Especially when it comes to the bumping ship.
No! Absolutely not. Their precious sec status after all. Pod killing in HS is a great way to lose sec status.
Because the entire concept is completely untrue. The issue isn’t that gankers face low risk. Players who are prudent and reasonable in their game play are usually going to face low risk. What we are seeing is that the rewards are so high because of the actions of those getting ganked. In fact, those two things go together, by-and-large. If you are getting ganked, you were imprudent and foolish. If you are imprudent and foolish you have a much higher risk of getting ganked. If the freighter pilot did not put 6.8 billion ISK in cargo into his cargo hold there would be no reward. Those who are ganked, by-and-large, in the words of @Fabulous_Rod, create the “tremendous rewards.”
Philosophically I have to wonder…why isn’t anyone annoyed at the players who create these situations?
2 Likes
Why do gankers have a guaranteed income?
1 Like
The cost of using anonymous alts for logistics is also very low.
From the other side, the loss to the playerbase in emergent content is quite high. How much more interesting it would be to have seamy dealings, protection rackets and players alternately collaborating and conniving, we have this boring and stale situation.
It would be incrementally better if every ship larger than a frigate had to pay a mass based docking fee with a multiplier affected by their corporate standing to that station’s owner. Players in NPC corps would have a much more trying time of it and be at a general competitive disadvantage versus those players who conduct their business in the light of day.
With omnipresent alts plying the freight lanes, all you have are these impersonal dealings, and the need for duck taped solutions to maintain the veneer of interaction between players.
1 Like
It doesn’t (and honestly probably won’t given CCPs declining manpower) need to be removed. The status quo has worked fine for a decade or more and will continue to do so. But I don’t see any other way to get criminals into more expensive ships, do you?
What would induce someone to undock in a ship they are guaranteed to lose if some just lands a tackle on them? How can a player vigilante even find a criminal in space if the NPCs force the criminal to stay docked and move every few seconds? Give ships more EHP and criminals will just bring more cheap disposal ships and still stay docked almost all the time and any fights that do result will still be fish-in-a-barrel one dimensional affairs with the NPCs deciding it within seconds.
Raising the cost of the DPS is next to impossible given you can just bring more cheap destroyers. What other solution do you have have in mind?
At least removing the facpo the criminal can give a “good fight” and there is room for them to make a mistake. As it is, player vigilante is the lamest thing in the game as almost all the interesting gameplay is done by the NPCs who are faster, stronger and way more perseverant than a player could ever be.
Despite CCPs talk of the “Empires losing this grip” and putting more of the universe in our hands, I don’t think they have the resources or interest in touching the facpo or CrimeWatch ever again. I think the criminal mechanics we have now are largely the ones we will have when the servers go dark so I suggest you learn to deal with the game as is as nothing significant will be changing anytime soon if ever.
EDIT: I guess though you could nerf the facpo somewhat. Maybe turn them into something more like the new wandering NPC pirates in FOB systems that show up infrequently and in varying strength. More player-like and less omnipotent. That might work by given the criminal at least a chance to operate but still have some risk an NPC would show up, and fight them. If you could actually beat these new hypothetical facpo in a fight (yes, I know that in theory you can beat the current facpo), that might encourage players to ship up to something more expensive.
2 Likes
You added no facts, you didn’t change my mind. This isn’t me putting you down, its me pointing out a fact. Perhaps you could errr, come up with something compelling, instead of just angry typing.
A nereus already has the ehp of a plate vexor or the reps of a dual rep vexor. If you give it locking time in the scale of a cruiser (as you have asked for), the dps in the scale of a cruiser (as you’ve asked for), then its going to be effectively a combat cruiser with 5000m3 of cap charges in its hold. In other words its going to be an extremely durable cruiser, and capable of tackling other cruisers at gates whether they wanted to be or not, which is a very far stretch from the requirements of a hauler.
This is pretty much self evident in your brief which is defeating gank ships like destroyers, defeating destroyers really is part of the role of cruisers after all.
You’ve just proposed a design which pretty much walks, quacks and blows water out of its blowhole much like a porpoise does when fitted with a sebo (hint - whether its called a fleet hanger or a cargo bay, it still carries cargo). ie we seem to have gotten onto this class of ship for a reason.
This is an ad hominem type logical fallacy. You aren’t going to convince anyone of anything with that. Also I’m the only person bothering to read or reply to your arguments which is rather amusing in the context of that statement.
I like what you did here!
the comparison is not facile
your proposed solution may be a little over powered, though that only makes what you did here
quite convincing
if its intended effect was to show the silliness of the whole circular thread and its false foundation-
for the cost of maintaining a truly independent hauler alt with no connection to the main checkable through contract history etc, and conducting proper opsec, is no more low than the ganker’s cost to suicide his ship.
Of course many reject this cost altogether, feeling entitled to perfect safety- thus the CODE ETC.
To be a big fat juicy whale wallowing blind in a sea of sharks, alone and without support or intel, generally results from the same mentality that thinks threads like this a good idea, and a reasonable response to their perception of the problem- poor game design not their refusal to play the game
Real arbitrage pvpers and Carebears not CARELESSBEARS not come to forums to post, they just put the loss of their freighter into spreadsheet, and go on with business.
That is what we have now, not PIRATE/CAREBEAR, we have CAREFULBEAR/CARELESSBEAR
lots of bears, never a bad thing as large furry creatures with big teeth and crush you in one go, just to take your picnic basket
Yogi bear basically ninja picnic baskets all day long, BooBoo bear might help Yogi by pricking his conscience, Ranger Smith would help the picnickers by attempting to fight back, they were ‘carebears’.
Snaglepuss he thought mostly of himself, and did not help either Yogi or the picknickers. that is a carelessbear.
Riddle me this, in my example who is the CODE, yogi or booboo, who is the pvp aware and competent hauler, yogi or booboo-
I think both.
Ranger Smith obv. AG.
3 Likes
Hi zluq, just a quick response here.
CCP avows that 80%+ of EVE players reside in Highsec, and never leave. Your notion that things might be better if Highsec were in some ways modelled on Lowsec appears to ignore the reason why this is so.
The carebears of Highsec have stated many times, in public places and in private (to me), that they want no part of PvP, however it is presented. They’re simply not interested. They want to log in, tune out, and switch off.
It’s one of the reasons that CCP has been very slow to implement real change in Highsec, to force players into engaging more with their fellows. It’s the reason that things like wardecs, corporation mechanics, and yes, Crimewatch - are still in something of a mess.
They daren’t risk freaking out a significant portion of 80%+ of the player base.
You didn’t mention this (that I can recall), so it’s not directed at you, but if CCP thought for one moment that suicide-ganking in Highsec - as it currently operates - represented a real and present danger to the balance of life in the region, they’d pull it, and quickly, in the very next patch. Their profitability would likely depend upon it! (Highsec subs v. Nullsec plexing of accounts).
They clearly want to preserve Highsec as Highsec, and not as some form of Lowsec, with the risk of alienating that 80%.
Many New Order gankers already make forays into Lowsec; we also have alts/mains in Nullsec, so the benefit to us would be zero.
We are ‘The New Order of Highsec’ because it’s Highsec, with all its peculiarities and apparent inconsistencies. We love the carebears - our co-residents - and want them to explore alternative and exciting ways of living, in the environment they have themselves selected as Home.
3 Likes
Why else play?
Your quote applies to life, as it does eve, as many things do.
Suicide ganking threads may themselves become self aware under the weight of our perspicuity and persistence, then what will we do?
I must add that High Sec is the place with effective punishment, by game design, so by design it is the only place with Crime as such-
the CODE merely reflects this core gameplay.
Many Carebears want no part of pewpewpvp, but they do pvp
they are either carebears, who care about the game they play and fellow players
or careless bears like @Fabulous_Rod who whine at every loss for a change to mechanics.
lots of real carebears just put loss in spreadsheet and move on
2 Likes
read through this thread a second time and wonder about the idea that carebears are all carelessbear. besides this i have try out suicide ganking once to see if i get out so easy as described and with a cheap killmail.
i’m a pve science carebear so testing the suicide gankeing is a pve activity hypothesis is my job. 
1 Like
Heavens to Mirgatroyd!
I wont have Snagglepuss’ name dragged through the dirt. Or the mud, even!
Exit, stage right!
2 Likes
Oh No
there are true carebears, many
AND
there are carelessbears
The carelessbears give the carebears a bad name
No pure PVE activity in Eve!
THIS CALLS FOR SCIENCE!
I’m sorry- I did not compare him to @Fabulous_Rod though, my analogy fell apart at this point, I too
wish snagglepuss no ill will
1 Like
I was also thinking High Sec is more like the 1000 Acre Wood;
Christopher Robin - CONCORD: turning up to sort out loose ends but in general irrelevant for the story until the end.
Pooh - The careless bear
Piglet - A nooblet who isnt sure the careless bear is right but follows his example.
Tigger - CODE
Owl - Antiga: Always spouting advice, but not much of it makes sense and if you argue with him, he takes it personally.
Eeyore - The Forum Chorus (“I told you so”)
And my favourite
Rabbit - The WH/Low/Null experienced bear who keeps to himself and occassionally has to chase Tigger out of his garden with a cleaver. Or wisely just locks the door.
High Sec needs more Rabbits.
And less pooh.
3 Likes
/end thread
#Ramonawinsthread
2 Likes
“carebear” basically means “highsec player whom playstyle I don’t like”. Nothing more.
It’s an insult in the mouth of people who know they can’t bring anything interested to the topic.
Just like the overused “calm down, miner” or “grrr goons grr”.
The last bunch of posts specifically stated several people’s appreciation for carebears and the villification of carelessbears, who by their nature are a danger for the others.
Sorry, not sure if that was clear, what with all the cartoon analogies.
1 Like
carebears come from a cartoon series.
Yes though neither of the ones mentioned.
And strictly speaking they come from a toyline with a show and a spinoff show.
However, I wouldnt want to fight one. That carebear stare will mess you up funtime, fams.