The cost of suicide ganking is too low

Communications Center General Discussion
41

All of these assertions are false. First, CONCORD
explodes only a few hundred players a week according to zKillboard (CONCORD | Corporation | zKillboard). Even given not every kill shows up there, that is still only a few percent of all highsec activity. Suicide ganking may be more visible than players running missions or doing industry in a station, but it certainly is not the most common activity in highsec.

Further, ganking isn’t especially easy - it is easier or at least simpler to set up a gate camp in lowsec for example and not worry about the NPCs - nor is it risk-free or inexpensive. A quick look at the killboards will show that it costs hundreds of millions of ISK to even attack a freighter in highsec, and such efforts sometimes fail, often at the complete loss of a gank fleet. By sticking to lucrative targets gankers can make a profit, but that is only by ignoring the vast majority of unprofitable (and thus prudent) targets that ply the highsec trade lanes.

Finally, many if not most of these players shot by criminals are not new players. New players are not flying overloaded freighters, purple missioning ships nor ORE module fit mining ships. These are examples of the decadence if vetetan players who have underestimated the risk the mechanics put them at in highsec and made themselves a profitable target for a criminal.

Highsec is safe enough. Almost every loss can be avoided, and if you follow the golden rule and not fly what you are not willing to lose, losses don’t matter anyway. Explosions of imaginary assets are to be celebrated not treated as some problem in an game about building and exploding spaceships. Protecting yourself is part of the game, and everyone has to do it from the most vanilla carebear to the most ruthless pirate. There is no reason to make the game more inert and lifeless by increasing the cost on content creators.

10 Likes
42

Do you have actual evidence for this claim, or just your deeply held beliefs?

As for CODE., they have clear and logical objectives and well-defined criteria for selecting their targets, which are broadcast to the world by every means available, including a dedicated website. They go to frankly absurd lengths to advertise their intentions, and if you are ganked by a CODE. member or affiliate, you have only yourself to blame.

Object to their methods if it makes you feel better, but they are by far more organized, more professional, and more skilled than those who complain about what they do.

4 Likes
43

Hi Fabulous Rod (…)

Whew! If it weren’t for James 315’s wonderful Ship Replacement Program, many of we gankers would be EVE-destitute.

Maybe all you miners should, you know, get together and donate to a central fund so that your ship and other losses could be reimbursed.

How likely do you think it is that such an orderly and generous initiative could be successfully established in Highsec, and by miners?

You want CCP to make ganking more difficult when you and your ilk have everything you need to do the job? Where I come from that’s called a rude word followed by ‘laziness’.

3 Likes
44

I would like to ask you to consider the following, and beg you to reconsider your narrative of the CODE ganker who ganks ‘just to make you lose your assets, to hinder you’- that they gank 'for the sake of it.

I do not beg that you change your mind, as your mind is your own, but to consider the following before assuming that the particular miner ganked, is always themsellf the cause of the gank, whether there is an isk benefit or not.

Just consider, for the sake of discussion:

Who are the CODE?

Whenever a ship is destroyed someone loses isk, and someone makes isk, these people who make and lose isk are not always ONLY the ganker and gankee, CODE agent, or ‘innocent’ miner?

For what is innocent? Surely to bring resources into the game is never an innocent act, innocent perhaps of malice, but with an impact upon the board as a whole, such that others may feel the need to make counter plays, should the risk of this activity become so low it affects other areas of the game?

Are some in a position to affect the board in such a way that for them eve is more RTS than MMO?

Who are the players who control the board as a whole if any do, the players in CODE, or other entities?

Are CODE agents often alts of players in other entities, and at the same time are they all aware who is an alt of who?

Can we take a (in the eve sense of course) ‘political statements’ such as THE CODE as ‘the truth’ in any case?

What is propaganda? What is its purpose? To persuade people to act and to change the behaviour of others, and the patterns of their behaviour, in a way that benefits it’s creator? and is this often achieved through the use of rhetoric on forums, videos, third part websites, in game bios, meme spam and general ‘meta-gaming’?

What is ‘minebumping.com’ and what is it’s purpose, why does it exist?

What are the particular political circumstances surrounding James315’s campaign of miner bumping, and how does that inform, and should it inform, our interpretation of the CODE itself?

If the victim of a suicide attack loses ‘everything’. who is responsible for them placing all of their assets in play?

All at once, on the board as it where- given that none of us, even Alliance leaders, have a complete overview of the board?

If they lose ‘everything’ in terms of their assets, then they do not also lose their ability to play, reason, and, speak, and learn, nor do they lose their dignity unless they allow themselves to- they may even benefit from the experience, though it would be silly to see this as anything more than a happy side effect, of an activity which can have many ramifications and intentions simultaneously, in the context of the board, the game board.

Just my 2isk

1 Like
45

The gank fleets are always insured, what if Concord attacks the ship and the insurance is cancelled because it wouldn’t cover something lost in a crime.

If I robbed a bank, use my personal car, the cops rammed and damaged my car. I can’t call the insurance company to make a claim because the cops damaged my car. I think the would laugh in my face as the hung up the phone.

You CAN NOT tell me that the space insurance company SpaceGeico doesn’t have an army of space lawyers to fight stupid crazy claims…

1 Like
46

that’s what happens, that’s what happens when your sec status gets too low

people can recycle alts to get round that though- but it is considered an exploit and they are banned if caught

47

You sure you get an insurance payout if destroyed by CONCORD while committing a crime?..:thinking:

1 Like
48

when I did it for a bit it was boring, I had to pay SO much attention to the maths to make it worth it, and its a gamble cause loot fairy- I didn’t have the time or skills to set up my scanning alt properly and time everything

Risk High, Reward Low- reward gets better I guess as the pvper gets better but isn’t that always the case?

49

All that you are saying really doesn’t change anything related to this argument.

Read the first two sentence of the OP. You are not understanding the main issues here.

What is wrong with requiring more expensive ship types so there is some actual risk involved on the part of the ganker, and so that those who want to combat this cowardly tactic will have some worthwhile targets to destroy that can’t be so effortlessly replaced as the disposable ships gankers are flying now?

Currently, suicide ganking is so common and inexpensive in its current form that it turns EVE into a repulsive joke of a game, one in which risk-averse griefers and cowards enjoy too many advantages and protections.

4 Likes
50

Gank fleets are not insured, because insurance becomes invalid if Concord are involved in an explosion.

5 Likes
51

NOTE: Patti, I’ve rather aggressively snipped your post, for the sake of (my) clarity. Apologies if I offend.

Speaking personally, as a CODE. Alliance member and, prior to that, a New Order affiliated Highsec ganker, raconteur, and official disseminator of the wisdom of James 315 in audio format - see my SoundCloud page,

I can reliably inform you that it’s all great entertainment; fun, just as a video game ought to be. That my activities are not regarded in quite the same way by recipients of my attentions, is a matter of complete indifference to me, since I don’t regard myself as compelled to provide for their enjoyment of CCP’s proffered features.

3 Likes
52

Well you know there have been other changes to the game like no watch list, crimewatch change, war dec changes that have had an effect upon high sec

I don’t say its worse

But its not really a PVP playground anymore, go to low or null, High sec its where indy stuff happens, where pve people who don’t want to pvp but still do cause of sandbox economy, and then other people who farm them basically, I mean the PVP types in high sec might prefer a more immersive time as well but high-sec is really the beginners zone now, and Delve is high sec, its probably more secure there for a start.

I exaggerate a bit, but high sec is high sec, its safer but not safe. YOU can make it safer yourself, through elite PVP, or use mechanics to produce some emergent gameplay of your own like CODE and AG,

YOU could turn high sec into exactly the kind of place you want it to be, or your part of it, if you make friends and influence people, or are just elite enough at PVP as you suggest

but don’t ask for a magic sword of shield of invulnerability that can only be countered by an elite sword of gank,
in a proper bloody sandbox game.

EDIT TO ADD: you can have an alpha clone destroyer gank character log off trapped in every system of high sec for no cost at all after insurance, just don’t log them on at same time, you just have to find a way to do more DPS than them before concord gets you, as you will be aggressor, get pyfa or eft out and BEGIN the work that goes into this. GIT GUD.

53

No insurance payout for crims, Kathern, SRP only.

54

I never tried it. I assumed it was just covered if destroyed period…

Take a teachable moment where I can get them.

1 Like
55

Maybe before you come to the forums and demand changes to the game mechanics, actually make yourself familiar with them? I mean what value has the opinion of someone who does not even know what she is talking about.

4 Likes
56

Yes I’m not always clear and not have a complete understanding of certain aspects of the game.

I’m very willing to learn. My lack of understanding is one of the main reasons I’m here to learn.

I’m not trying to go retard rage saying that there is a Easter Bunny and the “99%” that says there isn’t is 100% wrong.tenor
078

57

Opinions about CODE and whatever else aside, those Soundcloud recordings are brilliant :hugs:

I have been listening to them for the last hour. While I mine. Without a permit. :rofl:

2 Likes
58

Thank you Sindara; they’re great fun to do!

2 Likes
59

Elsewhere in these fora, you have questioned my reading comprehension skills. Well, now it’s my turn:

For someone so insistent that we read and re-read the OP, you’re remarkably reluctant yourself to read and consider the relevant replies.

1 Like
60

1.) you realize some of those people with permit holding bios, mine and build things to supply CODE.
2.) When CODE was being born, they had actual mining/indy alt corps, whose to say those still dont exist.

3.) The real question is, what is expensive? especially in the case of CODE and freighter drops? I am sure that by now if they were able to use them they would intercept with Caps, most freighters i have seen on the KB can easily replace a Cap or two from its loot drop and many smaller ships provide just as much as well.

4.) OP just needs more practice at understanding EvE. Like how the player base routinely breaks and games anything done to curb their activities with mechanics.