Use the scrollbar.
You donât get to have a word on this; you have been posting continuously.
You are doing this elsewhere as well. Quite a lot and quite often.
Gotta say though, Iâd hate if you ever got banned ! 
Ditto
Youâre as bad as any of us 
2 Likes
Is that so? Then Iâll have to report you for impersonating the forum moderation.
Maybe donât over step it here. You have a problem with it. That doesnât mean everyone has one. You then fail to post on topic and rather want to antagonise others on this forum for your mental health.
How about we ask to get you banned? Apparently this is a really, really good thing for you.
Or maybe just shut up and relax. Use the scrollbar if itâs too much, but if you cannot enjoy the forum then it doesnât mean we have to leave.
Oooohhhh Iâve tickled a nerve! 
No. Iâm cool as ever. I just stand up to trolls. And youâre out right trolling the thread.
The same thing is always said by literally everyone else who had his nerve tickled. 
I am trolling the thread now?
Now come on, thatâs not true. I donât post even close to half as much as you guys and you absolutely canât pretend that I do! 
Iâm trying to be foraminous* instead of just uselessly posting for my amusement, and I have other things to do as well! Even if I wanted (I donât) I wouldnât actually have the time to spend so much time reading and posting. Or, in other words, I have a tad more Life than you guys.
* ( thatâs an actual word! Like this post if you had to look it up! )
No. Youâre just seeking attention now. This isnât about the topic, this is all about you. Just gonna flag you again.
1 Like
Things I would do differently:
- I wouldnât make a HS Social Corp, because I want my guys active in nullsec where I need them.
- If I did, duh.
- If weâre putting all our HS alts into this undecâable social corp, there are no other alt-corps of ours owning structures in HS.
- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAH. This wonât work. No, nobodyâs going to even attempt that. Christ, even we donât manage that, and weâve got the best trade infrastructure among all player groups.
- Why would I bother? I want my guys active in null, not HS. Iâm not going to burn out my guys with endless goddamned structure bashes in Highsec. Who cares about highsec? I have more important things to care about, like every other nullsec group that might be getting ready to try to take my space.
- Uhm⌠you know the reason NS groups use freight services like the Frogs and others isnât âthey canât get decâdâ but âtheyâre reliable couriers who will either get the job done, or pay the collateralâ. The hardest part about running freight groups is getting people willing to do it. You might see some of the folks already in null, who already run their own freight, doing this with social corps, but thereâs not going to be some huge upswell, simply because if the nullsec group already has enough people willing to reliably, constantly spend their time running freight⌠theyâre already doing it.
- I, too, want as many spies as possible to get an easy way into our confidence. THIS IS SARCASM. Really now, why would I care about HS competition on commodities? If Iâm trying to make it into some kind of no-effort financial empire, all I have to do is look at Hordeâs attempts at that around Jita. Theyâre still broke AF. Thatâs not making them the money Gobbins likes to claim theyâre making. You want to see where market fees makes a massive amount of money for the corp that owns the cit, look at Delve. And that only works because itâs out in nullsec.
- In about 6-12 months, youâll be a mini-Gobbins, lying to your line members about the money youâre making, and not putting a dent in Jita.
- No. Just⌠no. This is beyond stupid. First off, why would we want these people in our social corp? Why would we want to not shoot people? Why would we come to highsec rather than staying where we can shoot people and, you know, shooting people? We went out to null for a reason.
- This is incredibly ambitious and completely unworkable. Seriously. The evidence already in-game says this doesnât play out this way.
You may think what you wrote is smart, but what you wrote is, in fact, completely foolish. There is no reason to expect that the reaction to HS social corps will be players in nullsec deciding âan awesome new tool for ensuring I donât get fights!â The money available in highsec is peanuts. It is pocket lint. There is no real incentive to even care.
The only nullsec group thatâs made any attempts at a âtrade empireâ like that is Pandemic Horde, and their attempts literally only continue because Gobbins is too stubborn to admit he screwed up. And theyâre not even really dealing with their own structures, theyâre just extorting the guys who do have them.
Malcanisâ Law will almost certainly come into play somehow, but it wonât be that way. Your scenario directly contradicts already observed behavior.
2 Likes
You did not even spend five seconds actually reading and comprehending my post.
Two seconds after Iâve sent it you already started typing.
Anyhow, Proteus is silent. Toodles o/ 
EVE NEEDS new players. I dont think about all of the corporations that could start finding ways to show these new players how fun it is to fly in null as f1 monkey and experience Tidi.
Maybe just let them do what they want, not forcing their hand to beat themselves or others. I think they will eventually come to forums and ask, âhow do I become a fleet commander in this gameâ? 
And that would be success.
1 Like
daily bump for spatially limited wardecâs.
2 Likes
You mean PvP arenas? Because thatâs essentially what this is.
I fear that for some will this turn into a Whack-A-Mole game, with targets evading the area only to enter it from another point. It may also be used to further focus wars onto trade routes and market hubs.
Making war targets visible on the map can however have a similar effect when war parties see where everyone is. Then they can pull their people together, try to flank, to bait and try other tactics, and thereby limit the space where the war takes place, and all on its own while being actually fully open to where this happens.
What could work though are time-zone limited wardecs. Corporations would be required to specify a time window of at least 8+ hours in which they are open to warfare. This then allows corporations from geographically different regions to have their wars when most of their members are online, while they can gather resources and refill their stocks during the off times. Although this may be more of an option for social corps so they can get a taste of warfare on their own terms.
The people in this thread that are ignoring the business reasons about exploring changes in EVE due to information gathered and indications that CCP are losing too many current and future current players due to faulty game mechanics and stagnant gameplay in the areas they, the players, are interested in participating in make me shake my head. Ideas such as HTFU, force them to play with us, make them do activities they donât want to do, revert the game back to how it was in 200?, pay them in game money to come back so they can be forced to do an activity they donât want to do,etc.
After almost 11 years in the game, Iâve seen too many of my friends and in game friends leave. Some of because RL just got too busy for any leasure activity. However, the far largest amount of former players I remained in touch after their leaving quoted the two major reasons of leaving as the WD mechanics and stagnant development in their preferred areas, which were split about 20%/80% between LS/HS. They felt that with the time they had available to them, the RL cost of paying for EVE (both TIME and money) was far too high for the enjoyment they got out of the game.
Now if you think the numbers reported to the CSM by CCP donât indicate a serious problem, that current gameplay is fine, that CCP doesnât have some arbitary profit number target that PA has not revealed, and that losing people willing to pay to support your game even if they only utalized a small fraction of it, well, then I can see why you are spam posting in this thread because of âThe Otherâ. The rest of us are hopefully trying to find a multitier, time graduated phase in of changes that keeps as much of EVEâs current gameplay the same, while allowing a certain part of the EVE community to have reasons to remain paying customers.
5 Likes
Letâs be clear here: this is not ignoring the business necessities. You canât get people to do an activity they donât want to do, if they have a choice. And they have a choice. However, you can incentivize coming back to the activities they do want to do. With that incentive in place, offering further incentives for people to try aspects of the game they might not otherwise gravitate toward isnât out of line, or bad business practice.
The people who absolutely donât want to PvP wonât. The best way to keep them coming back is to give them gameplay they want to come back to. Thatâs hard. Thatâs a long-term project thatâll take multiple years for CCP to really address, I think. An incentive to do the things they already seem to enjoy after a wardec ends, however⌠thatâs a lot easier, and it promotes them being active, doing the things they already like. Itâs not an ultimate fix. Itâs not even suggested to be one. But itâs a carrot, and right now, CCP desperately needs to give them something.
If I came across as throwing that particular idea out wholesale, I didnât mean to. That idea when fleshed out and expanded would be a piece of the puzzle to retain players in regards to WD problem. The problem remains that returning players who left because of the wardec would come back for some iskâŚand usually more wardeccing time. So they decide that will always have this problem without timely respite and say âf this waste of my time and money used to entertain others, I going to playâŚâ.
I also agree that overall gameplay needs to be improved for the PvE player and that this issue will take far more dev time. As I currently posted, however, is that CCP needs to have a quick and dirty(easy) method to retain the attrition rate of WD customers before EVE financials hit some form of a critical mass. So, of what has been discussed so far, what intelligent,meaningful,and easy methods can be used to quickly apply initial emergency aid so that EVE can healthily financially survive until devs can develope new gameplay and mechanics to ensure long term future life and retained gameplay?
âŚand please, no more HTFU and Mecalnisâ Law spam.
1 Like
Like when I heard that for PvE there was no actual internal tools before Events started being a thing. I was like WTF. Then I remembered that PvE was so boring outside exploration in low sec that I cant get back to running missions even when I force myself. I just go numb and fall asleep. 
I think if not for that post on old forums stating that low sec explo is fun, I would probably stop playing EVE completely at some point.
Nothing. There is no âquick and dirty(easy)â fix for a structural flaw in a complex system. Itâs like finding a quick and dirty fix for a jenga tower when youâre 30 layers higher than the imbalance point.
Basically, their options come down to âa lot of workâ, âa lot of workâ, or âa lot of workâ if they want to retain the wardec system. There are some relatively minor patches that can be put on it to buy some time (incentives, a âwar decâ structure analogous to the old SBUs in order to let people have the illusion of being able to fight back, etc), but none of those fix the two problems:
Problem 1: Normal Highsec gameplay is predictable, steady, reliable. In other words, itâs boring. Itâs a routine, and like any routine, what keeps you coming back is that it is a routine. Once you break that routine, it becomes much easier to just not fall back into it. To address this, CCP would need to significantly address and improve highsec gameplay options.
Complication: Every time CCP suggests attempting to do so, they face a large backlash from the current mission-running community. These players, remember, are in their routine. They donât want their routine disrupted. They want their options expanded, though, so whenever CCP says âweâre not touching the stuff you like, weâre adding other kinds of gameplayâ, they get mad that CCP isnât making more missions JUST like the ones they like, but NOT like the ones they donât, and which ones those are varies wildly. So basically, CCP is in a âdamned if you do, damned if you donâtâ scenario with mission-runners.
Problem 2: Wardecs do disrupt the routine of normal highsec gameplay. Theyâre inherently destabilizing in terms of someoneâs habitual tendency to play the game. This is unavoidable. There is no way you can allow one group to introduce instability and unpredictability into a second groupâs gameplay without disrupting that second groupâs routine. CCP clearly wants some potential for disruption to exist, but not enough to get people thinking âI could be playing something elseâ. That potential, after all, is part of whatâs meant to keep things from getting boring and monotonous in highsec.
As a result, their goal becomes to provide a routine thatâs robust enough to accept a given amount of disruption without becoming completely unstable. And thatâs where we screw everything up. Players, especially EVE players, take things to excess. If X works, lemme do 500X! CCP lets us declare war on people, so letâs go and abuse every potential victim we can!
Thereâs no mechanism in place for limiting how much disruption is introduced, and so thereâs no mechanism for allowing the targets to preserve part of their routine. And realistically, thereâs no real way to provide that limit. âOnly at war between the hours of⌠when did you say youâre online?â Thatâs not gonna work.
Thatâs the problem CCPâs facing if they want to continue to support the idea of a relatively safe space that can still be systemically disrupted.
While I fully agree with your stated Problem #2, I cannot fully agree with your description of Problem #1. The biggest complainers for any changes to missions in HS are the high sec alts of Ls/NS players who use their time in HS to generate âsafe iskâ at the max/min way possible. They know that NS offers far better payout for your time and want to speed through missions at the minimal amount of time and effort so that they can spend the isk doing NS/LS activities. I sat at the PvE roundtable and it appeared that the people advocating against any change in missions were mainly NS players (and their alts). Most of the people in HS just want new gameplay along the lines they requested and, not as we have recently seen, attempts by CCP to either entice/force group gameplay or provide high end enterainment/farming activities to bored LS/NS pilots. Yes, we all know that this will take timeâŚthe question is, just how much time does CCP have before either PA or the gaming community outside of the veterans of EVE decide that their waiting time is done?