The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out

csm

(Nevyn Auscent) #3713

And you’ve given no good reason why your view on this should be the answer.
I’ve provided a bunch of counter examples where scanning can be used without being remotely linked to ganking.
You’ve failed to provide anything but “Ganking is evil so scanning must be made suspect”.
Then again, what more should I expect from you Salvos, you always have been a bull, charging against whatever catches your eye and ignoring all logic along the way.


(Proteus Onzo) #3714

I showed you that a cheap scanning alt can verify ship fits for inclusion in Incursion fleets.

What other uses for scanning fit/cargo in HS did you have or provide, aside from cherrypicking targets for suicide ganks?


(Nevyn Auscent) #3715

Scanning the other incursion fleet for contests, scanning the guy who is contesting you in a site for his fit in case he steals your loot and goes suspect, scanning a mission runner for ideas on how to improve your fits.
And why should you have to get a new scanning ship every time someone gets bored and shoots the scanning alt.


(Proteus Onzo) #3716
  1. None of your business how the other Incursion fleet is fit.
  2. You can scan several of them before they get a lock on you and explode you. You can lock them first, and the scans run very fast.
  3. Nobody running PvE content will waste a mid for a fit scanner :smiley:
  4. You can ask the mission runner for their fit.
  5. Its a simple matter to set up a cheap scanning alt with home in a station there, especially for Incursion systems where it persists there for a week.
  6. If it gets blown up, you respawn and fly right back in a corvette with a scanning module. They are cheap as dirt.
  7. Incursion fleets will LOVE scanners going suspect, because it means they can identify and aggress someone looking through their fits inorder to gank them.

Is that all you’ve got?


(Nevyn Auscent) #3717

Except it’s only your opinion that it’s none of someones business and that it’s not ok to scan them.
You’ve provided no actual argument beyond ‘Because I say so’.
I’ve provided a list of reasons it’s a bad idea and a bunch of other non consensual activities that similarly don’t make you suspect. You are yet to provide any actual evidence or backing.


(Proteus Onzo) #3718

Its ok to scan them, but the price is you go suspect.

I wrecked them all above. They are non-issues.


(Nevyn Auscent) #3719

Why? Stop evading the question. Because you say so is not an answer.
You have provided no logical argument. You have wrecked nothing because you have to actually provide evidence.
Were you trying this on in a debating hall you would have been kicked off the stage by now for simply throwing out statements with no backing.


(Proteus Onzo) #3720

I have.
There should be a cost to invasively peaking into someones fit or cargo in HS, without their consent.

That cost is suspect flag.
You can still as much as you want, but you might get shot.

Ive demonstrated how this is not a problem for Incursion fleets, and that they infact will love it cos it means they will know if they are being scanned in anticipation of a gank.


(Nevyn Auscent) #3721

No, you’ve put forth a claim that there should be a cost. You have not provided any reason that there should be a cost.


(Proteus Onzo) #3722

There is the reason.
There should be a cost for every action in EVE, especially one that provides intel like a fit or cargo scan on another player.


(Nevyn Auscent) #3723

So why is the cost for undocking not going suspect then. That’s a cost for the action.
There is a cost for scanning people as you’ve already said, if people won’t fit it (which btw people actually do) then there is clearly a cost.
You are simply repeating your claim of “because I said so” here without any actual argument.


(Proteus Onzo) #3724

The cost for that is being in space and vulnerable to attack, which you arent in station.

I have not said so.

What cost are you claiming there is for scanning another players fit/cargo, without their consent?


(Nevyn Auscent) #3725

Oh wait, this cost applies to scanning someone as well. You aren’t in station so you are in space and vulnerable to attack.
Therefore there is a cost being paid to scan someone.


(Proteus Onzo) #3726

/facepalm.

That cost is equally shared by anyone that is undocked.
They have to undock to be scanned, and you have to undock to scan them.

It is not a cost for scanning another players fit/cargo for intel on them.

A suspect flag for fit/cargo scanning doesnt prevent you from scanning.
You can scan your heart out, but someone might shoot you.

You can scan just fine in a free corvette, and the scanners are dirt cheap.


(Nevyn Auscent) #3727

But you aren’t paying any more cost for being able to go make a profit by hauling cargo. So why should I if I’m using it to make profit.
Your arguments on why you don’t deserve to be suspect apply equally to the scanner. You haven’t explained why scanning someone should be equal to stealing their loot.


(Proteus Onzo) #3728

You both pay the cost of becoming vulnerable in space, instead of safe as docked.
How much your ship is worth or what you intend to do in space is arbitrary.
The cost is the same, as both of you can now be engaged in space by other players in space.

I have.

Its an intrusive, non-consensual act to sneak a peak at their fit/cargo for intel, the same way that you stealing their loot is an intrusive and non-consensual act.

Their loot doesnt belong to you, till you take it, and their fit/cargo intel is not yours either, unltil you take it.


(Nevyn Auscent) #3729

Except it’s not. It’s utterly non intrusive. You can be scanned without even being yellow boxed. If you can be scanned without knowing it utterly can not be intrusive.
So… it’s as non consensual as mining ore from underneath someones mining lasers, bumping them, 0.01 isking them on the market.


(Proteus Onzo) #3730

It is intrusive.

If I find you opening either my hood to check the engine in my car, or opening my boot to check the storage of my car, you better believe that is intrusive, non-consensual and a suspect act.

Dont you agree if I did this to your car?

Would you be like "Hey dude, go ahead and check whats under the hood and in the boot of my car. Thats NOT intrusive, non-consensual or suspect at all, broski!"


(Nevyn Auscent) #3731

But you didnt. I just pointed a camera at you with a zoom lens from inside a car and you didnt even see me do it because I was so far away. there was no lifting the hood and you noticing because you didnt notice.


(Proteus Onzo) #3732

Answer the question:

Note: This doesnt specifiy how they did it, just that they did.