The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out


(Arrendis) #3753

And what do you think will happen to the ship you’re shooting? Do you think it will turn into rainbows and unicorn farts?

You will blow it up. That is blowing up a ship. Which means you are talking about blowing up a ship.

This, then, is clearly false.

(Proteus Onzo) #3754

I would blow you up for doing it, but some wont.

Whether someone aggresses a suspect for scanning their fit or cargo is up to them.

(Arrendis) #3755

Which still means you’re talking about blowing up a ship.

(Proteus Onzo) #3756

Im talking about you going suspect for intrusively, non-consensually and suspectly prying into my personal ships fit or cargo.

You made the choice whether to scan or not.
I make the choice whether to blow you up or not, as a suspect, for what you did.

(Arrendis) #3757

Both of these cannot be true. If you are not talking about blowing up a ship, then you would not be talking about how you would blow up a ship.

(Proteus Onzo) #3758

Its not about you being blown up.

Its about you committing an intrusive, non-consensual, suspect act to gain intel on a player ships personal fit or cargo.

You go suspect for that, as the cost.

Whether someone bothers to blow you up as a result, or not, is up to them.
I would. Others wont.
But that doesnt change that you willfully committed a suspect act, and have to live with, or die, as a result of that.

The value issue you try to raise is completely stupid.
I can scan your fit and cargo in a FREE corvette, for peanuts in cost for the scan modules.
Now, and after if scanning causes a suspect flag.
I wont give a single ■■■■ if you blow up my corvette.
Ill be right back with another one, and right back to scanning.

(Arrendis) #3759

And now even you’ve demonstrated a cost, however slight, to the scanner who gets blown up.

You still haven’t demonstrated any cost whatsoever to the person being scanned.

And yet you claim you’ve shown the two to be equivalent.

1 =/= 0.

(Buoytender Bob) #3760

Here’s the solution:

Make scanning another ship an act worthy of a fine deducted from the scanner’s account and paid to the person being scanned; the “aggrieved” party is compensated for his emotional trauma and penetrated private space (heh) by receiving a cash payment. What if the scanner doesn’t have any/not enough ISK in his account? Well, then he suffers a suspect timer for 15 minutes. The fine levied by CONCORD should be small; after all no property was lost, no physical damage done. 10-50k a scan should then make the volume scanning of ships in the Jita pipeline a chance for transporters to earn some beer money on their journey. Just like getting a photo and a speeding ticket in the mail; your transgression was noted, no actual harm was done, but you broke the law and must pay a cost.

Making a pilot become a target for killing just because he accessed your ship’s manifest or noted your guns/sensor layout would just add more headaches to the already stretched thin CONCORD workload and you don’t want a cranky CONCORD anywhere around you.

(Arrendis) #3761

Except they haven’t broken the law. There’s no reason to add this in when it achieves nothing. Salvos’s little whiny tantrums are his own problem.

(Buoytender Bob) #3762

shhh, I’m stirring the pot. :wink:

(Arrendis) #3763

fair enough! heh.

(Proteus Onzo) #3764

I dont see the harm in suspect flag for scanning.

Just gives an option to aggress the scanner for prying into your fit and cargo.

You can still scan as much as you want, but yeah, you might get shot at.

I dont see a problem with that.

(Sade Musana) #3765

Do you guys ever stop to consider that the root of all problems in this thread, is unregulated multi boxing?

(Proteus Onzo) #3766

It is not allowed for any player whom has signed TOS/EULA to utilize two or more EVE accounts inside EVE, simultaneously, unless all of them are Omega status.

Many players ask about this and are surprised to hear it is so.
That they have been breaking this rule all along via various means.
Some of them self-report to not get penalized, but we have no idea how many others are still violating this rule, knowingly or not.

CCPs capacity to regulate, detect and enforce that is very limited.

My personal unsubstantiated opinion, is that CCP is not tracking IPs, does not have automated systems to collate them, or are not acting on that data, to check against multiple simultaneous accounts in EVE, which are not all Omega status in terms of IP or other identifiers.

Before the launcher and client was changed, you had to run multiple clients for multiple accounts. Now, nominally, they all run through the same launcher and client, but there are multiple ways around this.

The Alpha/Omega change was “thumb-tacked” onto the old EVE structure. I would not be surprised if there are rat holes throughout that implementation that complicate CCP detecting whether a player is running multiple non-Omega accounts simultaneously on one platform or several, both of which are illegal.

(Arrendis) #3767

Personally I believe that the root of all problems in this thread, including Salvos, is that human beings suck.

(Proteus Onzo) #3768

That would include you as also human.
You are a human being, yes?

As I detailed above, its a serious concern whether CCP has the means to actually investigate and enforce its policy regarding a player not flying multiple accounts in EVE, simultaneously, if they are not all Omegas.

(gregora mai) #3769

When you think Wardecs in Highsec are a problem, how would CSM call this?

And this in only today my friends…

(Proteus Onzo) #3770

Suicide ganking stats should be investigated by CCP and reported for consideration by CSM, same as this mass wardeec issue was.

(Arrendis) #3771

Yes, I know. My statement stands. Human beings suck. Human beings, taken collectively, are short-sighted, stupid, venal, gluttonous filth that consume everything in their path well in excess of any sense of need or use, casually commit violence on anything and everything around them including (especially) one another, and willfully deny anything that doesn’t fit their preconceptions.

Human beings suck.

Yes, they do. Obviously, there are limitations to what they can do about VPNs, but yes, they can and do track IPs to look for things like virtual machines.

I dunno what the CSM would call it, but I call it one guy suicide-ganking all day. Maybe 2. In-gates are dangerous places for haulers. Keep a couple of buddies in-corp with webs when you come into Jita.

(Proteus Onzo) #3772

Thus, you suck.

I dont think CCP has effective means at this time to detect multiple simultaneous accounts run by one player, which are not all Omega, which is illegal.

This is probably a result of the complications resulting from the client/launcher changes, and the Alpha/Omega split.

The rule is a PERSON that has signed TOS/EULA is not allowed to fly multiple accounts simultaneously in EVE, no matter how they do it, unless all of them are Omega. This rule applies to the person, whom creates acxounts and characters.

The person, IRL, is the one that signs the TOS/EULA and the accounts they create or the characters on them. Its a rule that extends to the person as the one that signed TOS/EULA