The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out

A wise man speaks because he has something to say, a fool speaks because he has to say something :slight_smile:

The only way I can see wardecs working is to use system security status. So for example 1.0, 0.9, 0.8 systems can have corps, but no ā€˜legal’ combat is allowed in these systems.

Thus pirates can still gank, but wars cannot be prosecuted there as it would be embarresing to the Empires. However, along the old Empires losing control theme, the 0.7, 0.6 and 0.5 spaces are a little more out of control. Corps here can be engaged in war as per now.

Alongside this the mission and structure rules would need amending. Secure space would only have agents up to level III missions. You want higher, you move down but accept the risk of wars. Structures would also need to be disallowed from the secure space regions too, you want your own piece of space, you move to where the Empires have less control. This would be need to stop citadel proliferation in space they simply couldn’t be removed from.

Obviously there’s problems here with existing citadels in higher security systems, especially those like IChooseYou with trade hubs etc. There would need to be an Upwell removal system to relocate them to lower sec systems as defined by the owner.

Whichever way you look at it fixing wars is going to be a difficult job, but if it’s killing player retention that badly something needs to change.

In your ā€œCivilian Corpā€ suggestion, this is how that will happen:

  • Once an unwardeccable Civilian Corp system is implemented.
  • NS Alliances will form HS Civilian Corps.
  • Thousands of NS alts, now in alt Player or NPC Corps, in HS will join them.
  • These Civilian Corps of NS Alliances will be flagged access and low rates to the NS alliances HS structures.
  • NS alt HS corp owned structure based tax/fee revenue will go through the roof.

Now tell me how a legit HS Civilian Corp of a few friends, as you stated, can compete with that.

They will just disband and join the NS based HS Civilian Corps, instead.

If they try instead to go Player Corp, they will get absolutely wrecked as their structure destroyed and ships attacked.

That is Malcani’s Law, in action.

Is this something you had not considered, or is it what you have been trying to hide?

Can you guys stop with this nonsense? You don’t want every player in a game. It’s only what PR wants you to think, that your game is for everyone… They say it so you don’t feel like you’re retarded and have special needs, but that you’re a normal person and that the game you so love could in fact be played by everyone.

Truth however is games are tailored to individual groups of people as if they’re all special snowflakes, and they not only include what these people want to see in a game, but also what they need, even when they often don’t admit to all their needs.

Of course does CCP want to target all players, but this is also why they create more than one game. One doesn’t make a single video game for everyone. There are so many different games these days, who really goes looking for just one game, which has it all? Such a game wouldn’t fit on a hard drive for a start.

So, please, keep this in mind when you again talk about player numbers and retention. We don’t want nor need every possible player. We need those people who can already enjoy the game the way it is, because there is just very little wrong with it.

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The minutes, CCP and CSM disagree with you.

The attrition is real, and apparently very alarming as isolated to a specific set of data due to a specific cause.
Did you even read the minutes?

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So, explain to me, what advantages are NS gaining that they are not already gaining?

Now, compare that to what the casual player is gaining, instead of logging off for a week or 2 gaining nothing, they can continue to play, enjoy the game and gather wealth.

Tell me, as Malcanis’ Law states:
ā€œWhenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of ā€˜new players’, that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.ā€

Who is gaining the bigger advantage?

I explained that already.

If Civilian Corps are implemented, it makes it pointless, dangerous and deleterious for any HS Corp of friends to form one, instead of joining one of the huge NS based HS Civilian Corps that will emerge and coalesce overnight.

If Civilian Corps are implemented, there will be on the next day, a small number of NS based alt Civilian Corps in HS, with thousands of members each, as unwardeccable, and with access to their mother corps structures at excellent rates, and the mother corps revenue from tax/fees of services will go through the roof.

Any legit HS Civilian, or Player Corp, can completely forget about competing for recruitment, use of their structures, or defending them, ever again unless they are stupid/suicidal.

This is what I should have said, to make it clear:

The decision to just leave the hisec solo guys too much at the mercy of war deckers, multi-boxers and gankers (bumping for example), cost CCP a lot of players…

I believe that Eve is best played when you want a challenge, that being said it does not mean you make things too easy for groups of players, such as hisec farming PvP focused players and make it impossible for less PvP focused players. It is called game balance…

Sorry but stop projecting, I never said I want Eve to cater for all player types, my suggestions are aimed at enabling those that want to fight to fight. So think again…

He keeps using that word continuously ever since it has been thrown at him …
… yet he apparently has no idea how to properly use it.

That’s your problem right there. Who gives a ā– ā– ā– ā–  what they say? I play the game and that’s all that matters to me.

And after reading about this BS does CSM now stand for Completely Stupid Muppets, because that’s what they are to me now. The guy who utter this nonsense about how wardecs should be removed needs to resign in my opinion.

He’s a politician. There is a lot of room for the assumption that he figured it would be in the minutes, so he did it for his own gain. He’s from the US, so he’s used to using feelings to fish for simple minded people.

The ā€œCivilianā€ or ā€œSocialā€ Corp idea must be resisted and called out, constantly.

Its at best a diversion from wardec fixes, and at worst means NS will almost completely take over HS, by making it pointless to join anyone except their Civlian/Social daughter Corps in HS.

Being an American is not an excuse. He needs to leave the CSM.

To be fair, they could already be doing this if they cared. It’s not like they couldn’t easily muster the manpower to roflstomp every single bigger group in highsec if they wanted. Or, hell, ALL OF THEM, at the same time.

Excuse? For what? The chances that it was done by accident are pretty low. He’s not dumb. Most people around aren’t dumb, they just want others to believe they’re dumb, because it masks out that they’re malicious.

That would require effort!, cost, time and aggression.

If Civilian or Social Corps are implemented, all they have to do is form one to which all their alts join in HS, and it will be pointless for any legit HS Corp to form their own.

In other words, if this is implemented, all they need to do is form the Civilian or Social Corps, and their own members will flood into it, after which so will the rest.

Its a brilliant strategy as a power grab, but will wreck HS entities past, resent and future, utterly.

This must not be allowed to happen.

And it would not require effort, cost and time with ā€œsocial corpsā€? Of course it would. Can you try using some actual argument instead of the first thing that pops up in your head?

You’re being irrational and driven by whatever feeling’s driving you. Is it fear, or anger? Could you please stop with that, take a few deep breathes and think this through again? Thanks.

Very little wrong with it or very small amount of players who enjoy it? That is what CCP is now weighting I think. :thinking:

For misrepresenting the player base and tarnishing the image of the CSM as an institution for representing the player base.

Or say, do you feel as dumb as a person as he is representing you? Do you?

All it requires is forming the Civilian or Social Corp and putting out the word this now exists.
After that, adjusting ratings for those Corps on existing structures.

Overnight, there will suddenly be some perhaps some few dozens of Civilian or Social Corps that have thousands of members each.

Good luck to any legit HS Civilian, Social or Player Corp to compete with those, especially since they cant even wardec them.