The Cynabal - It's Time, CCP

I just want to point out, since responding to this silly thread, I already have attained 22 kill marks on my Cynabal using it exactly for the niche I described. See example below.


Catching a Kestrel with SB


Catching a Destroyer


Then of Course, Industrial Ships


wtf bro … you are totaly wrong ! THIS is the only way to loot !

[Vargur, Tanky Looter]

Syndicate Damage Control
ORE Expanded Cargohold
ORE Expanded Cargohold
ORE Expanded Cargohold
ORE Expanded Cargohold

Pithum A-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Pithum A-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Gist X-Type 500MN Microwarpdrive

Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Bastion Module I

Large Cargohold Optimization II
Large Cargohold Optimization II

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WTH, why was that post flagged by community? What is wrong with it?

I think it’s because it was off topic. I read it before it was flagged. It read as a troll to the discussions. It’s like, having real discussions on ship balance and you’re saying it can be a mining ship. Like, we all know every ship can fit a miner II, but doesn’t contribute to the discussion.

1 Like

no he said salvage ship !

a hulk cant fit a Miner II and its a mining ship … !
a freighter cant fit Miner II
a carrier cant fit Miner II
a supercarrier cant fit Miner II
a fax cant fit Miner II
a drake cant fit Miner II
and way more ships cant fit Miner II

What about the scan resolution of the Gila, a ship made by the guys who call themselves Guristas Pirates? How quick is it to align and warp?

Good question.

  • Gila - 356mm, 244 m/s, 15.6k EHP, 6 meds/3 lows
  • Cynabal - 488mm, 329 m/s, 12k EHP, 5 meds/5 lows

The Gila was designed back in a time when piracy was about hard hitting Electronic Warfare was a very popular tactic with pirate outfits. Yes, you had the Blackbird and you had Recon Ships way before you had Electronic Attack Ships. The Gila was a combination of these ships without the bonuses to electronic warfare.

It’s role in piracy has pretty much died out due to all the nerfs in the specialization. ECM got changed, you got more specialized smaller ships (e.g.: Electronic Attack Ships and Tech I role refocus), and drone boats became the No. 1 botting ship. The Gila was also never meant to be a gate camping ship because drones are bad options for camping. It was more of a roamer, as in, belt roamer with a big punch. But, CCP nerfed low-sec belts back then too. It’s role pretty much refined for PvE activities only. If anything, this ship needs a refocus on role than say, combat power than the Cynabal.

The Gila might have a good place in piracy now that low-sec has received some love. But, it’s going to be awhile before more people catch on to how good low-sec is right now for it to come back into action.

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Maybe nearly every ship can fit miner ii but few make sense to do so (praxis and maybe gnosis, and even this only if you are alpha). On another hand salvaging cynabal makes perfect sense IF you drop MTUs to scoop the loot for you. I doubt you can reliably use 8 (7?) salvagers w/o having plenty of dead times on them. Not to mention rarely you get so many wrecks in one place to make a difference with more salvagers vs cutting on travel times. Especially when you also ignore small wrecks (which have little to no salvage).

Cynabal, the way it is right now, is also great for farming escalations from refuges - as it has good lock speed, nice alpha and good projection (for the job), which combined with agility and warp speed makes it easy to farm them fast. And to get an escalation you need to chew through a bunch of them.

Did you really just talk down to people after posting a bunch of newbie t1 frigate kills in a pirate cruiser? Man, I’ve solo’d a gate camping Cyna with a Cruor before I don’t see what the hype is here. Yeah, Cynabal warps fast to reset gate guns, it has good scan res, it has decent AC dps and projection, but it’s like you don’t even want to recognize that a damage dealing ship should have uses against ships near or above its ship class. Cyna isn’t even that good at killing assault frigates since it doesn’t have a tracking bonus and they’re a lot harder to break. Navy cruisers have gotten juiced lately it’s ok to feel like the Cyna has lost many of its roles – because it absolutely has lol.

Regarding @Seraph_IX_Basarab on a unique Angel bonus, MWD is a cool one but I lean towards web resistance given their association with Serpentis. Even just 25% would be very impactful for all of the hulls, mostly for the Dramiel. Cynabal would be able to brawl at edge of scram more reliably. Mach would mostly avoid getting deleted by Vindi+capital gun dreads.

Yup because it’s not meant to be a straight PvP brawler ship for standard PvP battles. It’s a pirate ship that means catching fools off the gate or in transit. Don’t talk like all PvP is supposed to be 1v1 brawling or fleet alliance BS. Those have better ships and builds. This is a pirate ship. That means industrial, mining barges, mining frigates, capital industrials, and yes, tech 1 frigates.

It’s not meant to be anti-assault frigs. Again, you’re talking straight PvP brawling, having a role in the fleet for comp versus comp. That’s NOT THIS Ship. The original poster talked about what niche it has and that niche is piracy.

Yes, ships like the Exequror Navy Issue is a great example. It can push out 1000dps overheated and actually has decent scan resolution to boot. But again, different applications on the field. Cynabal has a good role in piracy. It has the highest scan resolution and best alpha damage. You use it right it’s the best ship for it’s role. Stop trying to push all PvP into your little bubble. It’s not meant to fit in those comps and surely those comps don’t rule the game. Piracy has already seen a lot of nerfs. Making the Cynabal a more usable ship for your nullbear PvP activities would suck.

Kibbit you are a small gang PvP roamer in null-sec. You all run the bread and butter 1000 DPS comps. The Cyn is not going to fit into your small gang PvP comps. You guys use glass cannons. Playing the game on EZ mode shredding hulls with raw DPS. Like, get a clue man. The Cyn is not a glass cannon for what you would want in those types of applications.

I am definitely amused that you’ve supposedly looked up what kind of player I am and yet despite 90+% of my kills being in lowsec you think I’m mainly a nullsec pilot. I guess some of those systems have since been teleported into Pochven, but still many of my top systems are lowsec lol. Go ahead and filter for Cynabal kills on zkillboard and you’ll see that when I do choose to fly it, it’s to gank weak people for fun… which you seem to think is a novel concept to me for some strange reason.

btw Cynabal doesn’t have the best cruiser alpha damage, that honor goes to the Vagabond since it has 5 turrets with 25% dmg bonus so 6.25 effective turrets vs Cynabal’s 4 * 1.5 = 6

You also seem to have some bizarre notion that the attributes we’re talking about buffing would somehow push the ship out of being good at the role you have in mind when the exact opposite is true - it would expand the amount of viable targets you have. I’m really trying to understand what you’re going for here but it feels like you’re fighting yourself, or you truly and honestly believe that the best and healthiest design for a pirate cruiser is to be so bad at ganking people that it cannot even handle a t2 frigate or t1 cruiser that is well fit and piloted. No matter how this cookie crumbles, I will enjoy your continued contributions to this conversation.

Vagabond is a Tech II cruiser. I’m not saying it has the best Alpha of ALL cruisers in the game. But it has the best alpha in it’s meta, which is not Tech II. That means of the Pirate Faction / Non-Empire Faction and Empire meta of ship hulls, which will be balanced against Tech I, Tech II, and Tech III hulls to fall somewhere on a balance spectrum when looking at ALL cruisers holistically. In meaning, CCP Games is not going to make every cruiser have the same attributes. They will all have their pluses and minuses with different builds and roles within the game. Cyn’s role is not to be better than a Tech II cruiser such as the Vagabond. But it’s role in a comp may be better in certain situations.

Absolutely because that’s how ship balance works for the most part. They cannot give a ship everything. Scan resolution is extremely powerful and one of the most nerfed parts of the game. In meaning, CCP has gone out of their way to ensure catching ships overall is extremely hard to do. The removal of a lot of 10KM gates, warp to 0, WCS, more covert op ships, jump freighters, bonuses to warp strength, etc. We do not need this ship reduced in it’s ability to snag targets and lock them down to fit your small gang narrative of hand holding in space.

It’s not that it’s the very best, but again, for a ship with high scan resolution, high alpha for it’s meta, as well great speed, and tanking options, it does extremely well for it’s hull. There will be other ships that do things better in certain areas. You mentioned the Vagabond, which by right, is pretty good in many roles of the game, even way better than the Cyn in various roles. It doesn’t mean the Cyn is trash or needs a bump because so many pilots choose other hulls for certain comps.

Again, the Cynabal is a pirate ship. Piracy is about catching and ganking hulls for ISK. It’s not designed to be a bread-and-butter PvP comp ship to go against other PvP builds in 1v1 or 5v5 encounters. How you fly, regardless of the sec status of system, looks to be small gang PvP. That’s fun content and well respected way of PvPing. However, Piracy is not about just roaming in 5-man gangs trying to target other people who can fight back and destroy their comps. I get you look down on that and that’s fine, but piracy is one of the oldest professions in the game and it’s suffered a great deal of nerfing already.

Please do not treat us like a square peg to push into whatever round hole you think all PvP should be.

Meh, ships get to be however arbitrarily powerful that the devs decide they should be as long as they add more interesting and meaningful interactions to the game. Just look at t1 vs t2 destroyers. Though thankfully in our case, the Cynabal is extremely far from being a ship that has everything. Its tanking options are near-abysmal:

  • 5 mids is a weak position but technically usable… if it had the CPU for an XLASB like how the ScyFI does. That’s the major way to make ships with few mids competitive in terms of shield tank. Your best competitors are like the LSE+XLASB rlml NOsprey which have room for prop, cap booster, web, point, 2 slot tank.

  • 5 lows with no bonus is brutally awful for an armor tank option as far as faction cruisers go. Your competition has 6+ lows and often with a tank bonus slapped on top. The only way you get worse than Cyna is deliberately sabotaging yourself and using say a Caracal Navy Issue for your armor tank comparison. This is only ever a consideration for controlling EWAR focused armor fits.

Also… it’s not the playstyle of ganking that I look down upon, it is the part where you are trying to show off how cool your ganks are but then there’s nothing you ganked that a Gnosis would have failed to kill for a fraction of the price. 1.3s lock is no better than 1.7s since they both round up to 2s and the Gnosis can get similar align and warp speed times but with 6 mids for utility and more ehp to tank the gate guns.

Since you keep leaning on your personal theme of ‘pirate’ and ‘piracy’: the Angel Cartel is described as very warlike. Their staple hulls exist to be fast chess pieces moved by mysterious leadership. They’re opportunistic and that’s why their ships are fast… but they are very much used as warships such as vs Sansha’s Nation to the south. “Dominations” earned their namesake by more than just attacking random miners lol.

Anyways this brings me back to why I suggested a damage buff - they’re supposed to be speedy and powerful, but their firepower just isn’t that powerful anymore. Seems like a simple fix to me.

Tbh I think the issue with angels ships is that medium autos suck and 425s specifically need dps bad. The fitting on the cynable could use a tiny bit of cpu as well to make the fits work but ccp thinks artillery are the only good projectile weapon system.

Shows how little you know about the builds. Gnosis would require more sensor boosters and suffer greater stacking penalties than the Cyna. Matching the exact build of my Cyna, it would not be able to achieve the same catching without significant sacrifices to meds, lows, and rigs. Gnosis’s work better with remote sensor boosts in gate camps than being independently able to do it with one ship, not multiple.

So no, the Gnosis would not be able to do what I can do at a fraction of the price because you would need at least 2 ships, which brings up the costs. Matching a similar build to mine is cheaper because the Gnosis has a cheaper hull, but costs way more in modules because it requires more to match.

You’re doing all that to match scan resolution but completely gloss over the fact that while the Cyna is no Vagabond, it still has very good agility (so does the Gnosis) WITH the speed (unlike the Gnosis because it’s a BC). Speed is important when catching, locking down targets, and even chasing (e.g.: warp speeds which the Cyna has and the Gnosis does not).

This is again, why you fly glass cannons. Requires little to no thought on the small things. The ENI is a great all around ship and always has been. Great speed, agility, tanking, DPS, etc. Basically have it made for you in many situations. It’s like picking a top tier character and educating others on the play. The small things you missed is why the Cyna is critical over the Gnosis.

No. Shield tanking is extremely powerful without bonsus. Always has been in this game. Armor tanking, not so much. You can achieve sick tanking with 5 meds and no shield bonuses. Stop.

No. Stop. You know damn well the main ship you fly these days has a sick tank with no armor bonus even if you didn’t use a plate. Dual armor repping with spare meds to fit a cap injector is a sick option on a cruiser WITHOUT a bonus to armor. You add in sick damage bonuses, you will see why the ENI and similar can beast out, espeically with good meta builds. 4 lows and 3 meds, not so much.

The point is they are a pirate faction. The ship bonus, much like the Orth and others similar to the style are designed for catching, tackling, locking down targets. I’m pretty sure all the pirate faction ships are following the same approach with zero tanking bonuses. Orth, Ashimmu, Phant, and Vigilant all have catching, locking, tackling style roles for piracy. The Gila is the only exception, which is widely used for more PvE comps than PvP (or specifically piracy) comps.

The Cyna is just cursed with it’s bonus tied to more catching (gate-to-gate chasing or tackling off a gate jump). Styles that have long died out because of changes to the game. For example, 10km gates being far less, warp to 0, more covert ops ships, cloak-to-warp tactics, etc. That and the fact you can just as you said, use other ships for remote sensor boosting comps to make most ships better for insta locks. Now with the electronic ships, the goto seems to be a remote sensor boosted Keres for gate camps in low-sec and just using interdictors with standard tackle in null. Then you sprinkle some noobs in alpha Gnosis’s on the side with some logi’s, frigs or cruisers, you got a nasty comp.

Like seriously.

Funny enough, as I posted that response, someone was using a Cyna for their camp for that main reason. When you don’t have enough pilots, the Cyna is the goto for the natural scan resolution.

I don’t believe there’s a single person in this thread saying “nerf scan res of the Cynabal”, so your fixation on it is a little weird. Can’t see why you’d object to making the Cynabal “yes and’d” so that it is “yes great scan resolution and buffed X”.

Anyway, I chuckled at your calling Sir Bongwater “someone” :rofl:

Not saying that either, but the point I was making is the question of the original poster was, “Please give this ship a niche.” When it already has a niche as a pirate ship due to the bonuses LIKE the scan resolution. I also just wanted to emphasize that when it comes to balance, they may LOWER things to RAISE things and one of those THINGS may be the scan resolution since it’s extremely high.

I mean, looked like a someone to me, sitting on a high-sec gate with 2 bots in a very newbish position to get ganked extremely easy. End up losing all 3 of his ships that way if it wasn’t so late and no one was online.

Shows how little you know about the builds. Gnosis would require more sensor boosters

What gets me about our back-and-forth is there are some elements where you have a point, but then it’s like… you either don’t know or don’t mention why the third sebo is on your Cynabal. It’s not for the frigates, because 1.3 vs 1.7s on Gnosis (3 sebo each) is identical when EVE rounds it up to 2s. The reason it’s on the Cyna fit is for snatching up t3d like Jackdaw and Hecate since that’s near the breakpoint to lock them in 1s. If you think the Cynabal isn’t meant to fight more advanced ships then please, swap your third sebo for a web so you can kill the targets you’re actually interested in fighting a bit better.

The Gnosis is slow, sure, but the whole point of flying a Gnosis as a gate camper is you lock everything in around 1-2s and then have your own skirm link (and harvest web range drug) to instantly dualweb anything that decloaks. It’s easy to stay on top of a ship that can’t move, and it’s hard for them to burn back to gate.

You can achieve sick tanking with 5 meds and no shield bonuses.

Yeah it’s called an XLASB that the Cynabal struggles to fit. Sorry but your competitors here are ships like the NOsprey and they fit LSE + XLASB all day no sweat, and those same ships also set the standard for why you need that tank as a kiter - if you die in an RLML clip and can’t outproject them (lol good luck) you’re just trash. No sugar coating that one sadly, it is what it is. This is also what makes 800mm + med anci rep the standard for most armor kiting cruisers. I did make an LSE + XLASB Cyna fit and it debuted beautifully, and yeah I needed the tank because I fought an RLML cruiser and that tank won me the fight while still having the space for a web to hold them in my range and stop them from burning back into their friends.

5 lows for armor tank is just “I rely on control because I have 0 dps” which isn’t a very good strategy for anything other than baiting specific solo pilots. It works for drone boats since their dps is split anyways so the damage mods aren’t as impactful. That said, the faction drone cruiser is the VNI which has 6 lows, or the Stratios which has an armor bonus and 5 lows.

Honestly at this point I hope I’m also just helping you realize the breakpoints that exist for certain ships and what the competition truly is because the truth is the Cynabal isn’t like… super trash or anything, it’s just slowly lagged behind as other things got buffed around it. More dmg fixes most of its woes, and if that isn’t enough then more cpu/capacitor probably does the trick.

Cynabal | CaseyLP | Killmail | zKillboard
does not look like the cynabal struggles… yes you need some CPU upgrade but still its a decent fit …

[Cynabal, CaseyLP’s Cynabal]

‘Dyad’ Co-Processor I
IFFA Compact Damage Control
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

‘Interruptive’ Warp Disruptor
50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400

425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
[Empty High slot]

Medium EM Shield Reinforcer I
[Empty Rig slot]
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I

Zainou ‘Gypsy’ CPU Management EE-603

you can adjust this fit to get rid of your CPU modules / rigs … you can fill the rig slot as you want
maybe some more adjustment and you can get rid of the second rig