The Dantelion Plan

[Dantelion_Shinoni]

@Dracvlad

I hate to tell you this, but both sides of the debate, aggressors and defenders actually agree on this point, there is nothing to fight over. It is not a case of missing it, it is already well known.

I don’t know, I don’t think That Guy (obviously Dom) does, and he very much represents the “Elite High-Sec PvPers”.

At the same time, I don’t think there is a single thing they agree about that could lead to a consensus here. They very much fancy themselves as the defenders of PvP and Conflicts, but actually I think what they are really about is not defending PvP, what they really are about is defending their top position in a system.

This is why everytime I hear Dom talk, all I hear about is “the strong are strong, the weak are weak, done”. They are very much about the status-quo, they don’t really want the tools and competition that would encourage those weak to become strong.

So no, I don’t think the aggressors agree on that, if they would they would either advocate for the war following the player, or the war targeting/following assets, at least they would stop with that rhetoric of “the weak wouldn’t fight for it anyway XDDXDXD”.

@Whitehound

If you there bind wardecs to structures then others will wipe out your structures to make it impossible for you to declare war on others. Not only will they beat you in a fight, but they will also disable your ability to make your own wars.

Whether or not Wars become tied to structures, one thing is certain, there needs to still be an option for Wars without structures. However, that option has to be very limited in what it can do, in my Plan the role for it was for starting Corps to be able to big for a spot for an HQ in order to start the process to grow.

Also, High-Sec is the perfect ground to introduce Balancing mechanisms for Conflicts. The way we have Ship Size limitations in Faction Warfare that made sure the PvP there was more accessible to more people, the WarDec system could be made to encourage, not forbid" entities to pit themselves against targets of their size. This is the whole principle of Social Corps, we give an option to those who want no stake to opt out and stay small and grow at their own pace, and those who are willing to risk don’t get utterly crushed by the big fish out there.

@Dyver_Phycad

More things die in high sec than in most other regions of EVE

I heavily doubt it. Willing to be proven wrong though.

I remember a time when FW held that ttile head high… Good times.

@Dyver_Phycad

What people in high sec want are fun things to do.

Being station-camped into disbanding your corp is fun? Mining forever is fun? Being bumped to death is fun? Missions are fun???

I am sorry but we might actually disagree on what fun means.

@Dyver_Phycad

There is already more than enough conflict in high sec

It’s not so much the amount of conflicts, it’s the lack of meaning of them. Oh great, you suicide-ganked another miner, you infiltrated and brought another corp, you wardecced another dozen of corps…

Now what?

All other zones have a story to which everything happening there contributes:
FW and the overall war between Gallente/Caldari and Amarr/Minmatar
Null-Sec with the building of Empires
W-space with the exploration of the unknown and the creation of your own little world/hole.

High-Sec? Just a land of lawless brigands murderhobbing each other for no other reasons than “you were there”.

I think a waaaaay better story could be:
The Creation and Growth of the Forces of tomorrow.

And the conflicts there could be made into the tools to accomplish that.

Anyway, I still working on the FW post. Real-Life is getting in the way though, but it will definitely be done this week, hopefully.

[Whitehound]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

… in my Plan …

I don’t care for it. Don’t even quote me. Your plan is like any other plan - meant to fail on contact with the enemy.

[Dantelion_Shinoni]

Better than capitulating without a fight.

[Dom_Arkaral]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

I don’t know, I don’t think That Guy (obviously Dom) does, and he very much represents the “Elite High-Sec PvPers”.

do you even know what I do ingame? XD

[Noragen_Neirfallas]

Dom represents Dom

[Dom_Arkaral]

I thought I represented everyone doing HS pvp :sadface:
/s

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

Bingo!!!

No, not bingo.

How dare you you dictate to me what is or is of not to value to me.

That is the very core of freedom and removing that removes the spirit that this game embodies.

[Nico_Boru]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

Being station-camped into disbanding your corp is fun? Mining forever is fun? Being bumped to death is fun? Missions are fun???

I am sorry but we might actually disagree on what fun means.

Station camped until disbanding? Youre doing it wrong. Fight or hire somebody to fight. Maybe try some diplo.

Nobody should mine forever. Ever.

Being bumped to death is impossible. And youre doing it wrong again. Get a buddy. An alt. Scout. Fight. Stop using auto pilot and/or blind jumping.

Missions were a lot of fun with friends. Funded my early pvp days. Add the loot/reprocessed loot/bounties to what you mined, build some pvp ships and fight back.

You undock, you consent to pvp. There is no need for a consent button, form, to have it in the EULA because:

1. You know you can gank somebody if you undock.
2. Knowing you have the ability and knowing the game allows it tells you others can do the same.
3. When you undock youre supposed to watch your ass or somebody may shoot it.

Simply consenting doesnt mean pvp will happen or happen regularly. Its popular. Blanket decs are just to find content. Ganking is a trend and will continue until somebody figures out how to prevent it in a fun way that leads to a lot of fun and gf’s in local. Or until something comes along that is easier and more profitable in both fun and isk.

[Nicolai_Serkanner]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

I eagerly await your response, provided you even have the capabilities to produce one.

Your own words:

“Maybe make it a zone where conflict is forbidden?
Maybe introduce corps that allow social groups to float around together as a school until they are ready to take on the sharks?”

Your goal is clear, the ‘maybe’ is only there to be able to “deny” it is indeed your goal. Your entire diatribe points to it.

[Nicolai_Serkanner]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

ot at being merciless, not at being a supposed lawless murderbox, not at wanting to be a barren mudfield people call a ‘sandbox’,

Wow. Did you so not understand what EvE is.

[Dracvlad]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

I don’t know, I don’t think That Guy (obviously Dom) does, and he very much represents the “Elite High-Sec PvPers”.

Well Dom is a bitter forum warrior non-entity. But it was a majority of people including Noragen who recognised that there was no content drivers as such, and what there was, such as Raitaru’s would not be defended, which is fair enough as a one man corp can’t defend it. The most evident is that there was no value to fight back for a defender, and the attacker has no skin in the game either. The attacker sees a gang that can kill them, its straight to the nearest station to wait it out.

@Dantelion_Shinoni

At the same time, I don’t think there is a single thing they agree about that could lead to a consensus here. They very much fancy themselves as the defenders of PvP and Conflicts, but actually I think what they are really about is not defending PvP, what they really are about is defending their top position in a system.

You and me agree here, it was so funny to see the reaction to my CONCORD agent in a Citadel to enable more than five war decs as they realised that they would not be top dogs and would have real risk of being swatted by nullsec alliances…

@Dantelion_Shinoni

This is why everytime I hear Dom talk, all I hear about is “the strong are strong, the weak are weak, done”. They are very much about the status-quo , they don’t really want the tools and competition that would encourage those weak to become strong.

Totally agree here.

@Dantelion_Shinoni

So no, I don’t think the aggressors agree on that

On the point of there being nothing to fight over, the more thoughtful and reasonable ones did. Dom is not representative of them at all.

@Noragen_Neirfallas

Dom represents Dom

Maybe a joke, but there is truth in that, he defines himself by his posting on the Eve forums, which is why he is so defensive about anyone making fun of him, I am still waiting to hear from the GM by the way… for harassment, crickets chirping anyone.

@Dantelion_Shinoni

It’s not so much the amount of conflicts, it’s the lack of meaning of them . Oh great, you suicide-ganked another miner, you infiltrated and brought another corp, you wardecced another dozen of corps…

Now what?

Very much so:

@Dantelion_Shinoni

High-Sec? Just a land of lawless brigands murderhobbing each other for no other reasons than “you were there”.

Yes such wonderful content, not…

@Dantelion_Shinoni

I think a waaaaay better story could be:
The Creation and Growth of the Forces of tomorrow.

And the conflicts there could be made into the tools to accomplish that.

Yep you think like I do in that we need to develop something better in hisec.

Anyway good luck on working it out, you can see what you are up against, reactionists and trolls.

@Dyver_Phycad

More things die in high sec than in most other regions of EVE, more people are active in high sec than most other regions of EVE

A lot of people are passing through, taking stuff to the trade hubs or taking them from the trade hubs, does not really mean that the core play in hisec is vibrant.

@Dyver_Phycad

The shooting comes with them on its own when people hunt for shiny marauders, suspect bait on the treasured MTUs

MTU’s, oh dear. The rest of what you say is picking on dumb people, and if hisec does not attract or retain them then the content is less.

@Dyver_Phycad

People do not desire more conflict than already happens in high sec, they have entirely different motivations for being there

As I said, there are many people doing indy there in one man corps and stuff. Their motivations are not to interact period.

My experience was testing the water to see if there was the possibility to gather players into a group that would stand up against war deckers and gankers and what I found was tha the majority of players there were not skilled in the right areas and while showing a certain level of interest, were not prepared to commit…

@Dyver_Phycad

ecause null sec is too safe and forces people into ever bigger blobs which makes it even safer.

These things go in cycles in nullsec, at this point we have a facing off between the north and the south, in the south the enemy has run away.

@Whitehound

Maybe they weren’t as indy and pve as you thought.

Maybe the Earth is flat, lol, different attitude from the period 2009/2010 to what I saw 18 months ago, next you will be telling me that all the good new players joining nullsec alliances immediately has nothing to do with it. Go on try it?

Oh you did:

@Whitehound

Or maybe they got pulled in and put to work in a larger alliance where they now work for PvPers. Maybe they’ve moved out into null and became renters where others protect their asses. Who really cares?

Well it made hisec less interesting for a start.

@Whitehound

t’s like you’re trying to turn boxing into a sport for everyone. Instead of punching each other in the head do you want players to punch just a bag, so that those who cannot take a beating can still become boxers. Only when they go on into the big league where they still have the classic rules will they get turned into minced meat.

What the hell are you wittering on about?

@Whitehound

You’re trying to sell a spot at the sunset by handing out pictures of a sunset.

Blimey what a load of twaddle.

[Whitehound]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

Better than capitulating without a fight.

The fighting takes place in the game and not on the forum.

[Dom_Arkaral]

@Dracvlad
Talking down on me again I see

This is great

It literally feels like every time arguments don’t go your way you’ll simply try to make the person who’s right look wrong or like an idiot.

But ty for more free ammo

As for the the strong are strong and the weak are weak it’s a fact.
The strong don’t come crying on the forums because theyre being shot at in a game about space submarines shooting each other.
The weak, on the other hand, will try to get the game to be so mild and uneventful… by crying on the forums about literally every aspect that they so hate cough ganking, bumping, cloaky camping, highsec wars cough
Those same people that ironically know ■■■■ all about the mechanics, or the repercussions of whatever change they want to bring to the table. And those same people that try to act all so mighty because they have an elite nullsec toon

I can’t wait for you or Dant to try and put me down again

[Dracvlad]

@Dom_Arkaral

Talking down on me again I see

Yes, because I see you as a nothing, a waste of time and space for me, I have a negative opinion of you, is that a crime? And if you call that harassment and cry about it more fool you. And you follow me around replying to my posts and it is all there, I hope you have petitioned me because this is going to be really bad for you, remember when I called you out for stalking me, remember the one where you threatened me by saying that it was easy to say stuff hidden on the internet. Yeah it is all there mate.

@Dom_Arkaral

It literally feels like every time arguments don’t go your way you’ll simply try to make the person who’s right look wrong or like an idiot.

Well you do that to yourself and you do it to others, you use misrepresentation, bait posts, insulting memes, calling people idiots, your posting is full of it, I tend to wait for people to start it, you do it as a matter of course. I have multiple posts from you where you came in on posts I made with insults, I ignored you, then you made a reasonable post so I replied and then you went into insult troll mode and those will be shown to the GM when he contacts me.

The simple fact is nothing will come out of it and if you think otherwise then you are living in some fantasy land…

@Dom_Arkaral

But ty for more free ammo

I went back on all the posts when I used your wonderfully apt nickname and the pattern is obvious, you have ammo and I have ammo, suck it up.

@Dom_Arkaral

The strong don’t come crying on the forums because theyre being shot at in a game about space submarines shooting each other.

Except that you don’t shoot anyone!!!

@Dom_Arkaral

The weak, on the other hand, will try to get the game to be so mild and uneventful… by crying on the forums about literally every aspect that they so hate cough ganking, bumping, cloaky camping, highsec wars cough

And:

@Dom_Arkaral

Those same people that ironically know ■■■■ all about the mechanics, or the repercussions of whatever change they want to bring to the table. And those same people that try to act all so mighty because they have an elite nullsec toon

Are those digs to try to get me annoyed, true to form, bait posting, I am so tempted to use your nickname here, cough cough.

@Dom_Arkaral

I can’t wait for you or Dant to try and put me down again

I don’t need to put you down, you do it by yourself far better than I could ever do it.

And what is most sad is that you define yourself by your presumed status on this forum, oh dear…

[Solstice_Projekt]

What a bunch of children. Inb4 triggering him again.

[Whitehound]

@Dracvlad

Yes, because I see you as a nothing, a waste of time and space for me

He cannot be nothing to you when you keep replying to him.

[Dantelion_Shinoni]

@Dom_Arkaral

Those same people that ironically know ■■■■ all about the mechanics, or the repercussions of whatever change they want to bring to the table.

I will bite.

Do tell exactly those repercussions you talk about again and again?? Everytime we tried to talk about those, either you or Arden or the likes you either gave no answers, and when you did you just plugged your ears and refused to hear the solutions.

Won’t try to put you down, but I very much try to expose you, you are fixated on your ways and in being so you cause the systems you try to defend to be fixated too.

So, dare tell those repercussions.

You won’t because that would expose you to answers, and that’s what you fear most.

[Dracvlad]

@Whitehound

He cannot be nothing to you when you keep replying to him.

He keeps replying to me when I reply to others or when I post my suggestions and opinions: In the exchange above he misrepresents multiple quotes, all to do wind ups, the objective is to make me stop posting. He is actually harassing me, but I have not petitioned him, I just take the P out of him.

An example of mis-quoting, I can go back years on this, it is all sitting there waiting for the GM.

@Dom_Arkaral

Dracvlad:

This is to prevent people having a war dec

Then prevent them joining or creating a corp for the duration of the defensive war…

Doesn’t need to be super complicated…

Dracvlad:

consequences

Limiting wars because you don’t have a citadel or whatever is not a consequence, it’s a punishment… lol

Dracvlad:

You are so negative.

Look at the mirror

[Whitehound]

@Dracvlad

He keeps replying to me

You do reply to him as well. Please don’t say things like “you’re nothing to me” when you reply to somebody. Instead, choose not to reply.

[Dom_Arkaral]

what’s the term… hypocrisy?