The end of CO2?

(Mayhaw Morgan) #25

You can’t make a rule in a game that pertains to things outside the game. That’s not a game rule. That’s a metagame rule. “No killing the other players.” is not a rule in any game I can think of. “No smoking crack on the field.”, I’ve never heard of this rule in a game. Bribing the other players to lose has long been understood as a “dishonorable” and “unfair” practice, but I challenge you to find it in the rules of any game. The EULA and TOS do not exist within the game of EVE Online and violating them is not breaking the rules of EVE Online. Violating them is a breach of the contract that you are a party to with CCP Games.

The whole point of metagaming is to gain advantage, rules of the game be damned. Sometimes that means you obey the rules to avoid the consequences of breaking them. Sometimes that means you break the rules and endure the consequences. Sometimes that means you break the rules and avoid the consequences. Sometimes you can “violate the spirit of the rules” without technically breaking them. Sometimes you can operate in a gray area where the rules are unclear or even explicitly, intentionally absent.

Saying “This is a bannable offense.” or “This is a capital offense.” says absolutely nothing about whether or not it should be done, from the metagamer’s perspective. Rules don’t matter. Only the objectives and the available means with which to achieve them.

(Nana Skalski) #26

I hope everyone knows what is the punishment for a spy in real llife. Betrayal is a serious crime. Morally and ethically its a serious thing.

(Corinne Chastot) #27

I hope the Judge reads this, because anyone with a decent head on their shoulders isn’t going to forget this…

(Faylee Freir) #28

No I’m pretty sure you’re just posting nonsense crap. What The Judge did has nothing to do with real life and no real life law applies to it.

Breaking rules with “metagaming” is just breaking the rules. You are aware that people get banned and suspended for breaking CCPs rules?

You are quite a remarkable idiot.

(yellow parasol) #29

This behaviour will not only get you banned eventually, it also means they drag you down to their level.

(Faylee Freir) #30

Sorry for using a hurtful word. Some people respond to calm and logical posting. Others need a little spice thrown in. Not only do I think he was wrong in his posting (which I pointed out), but I think he’s an idiot. He’s making an argument that breaking the EULA and threatening others in real life is ok metagaming.

It’s very likely he’s just trolling, but in the event he’s an actual moron, I’ll call him out on it.

(yellow parasol) #31

I’m not thinking it’s hurtful. Anyone emotionally affected by so simply wearwords should seek therapy, in my eyes. It’s just that CCP likes to protect those weak people, who are “in need”, with the smart ones taking the short straw. I don’t want to see you banned.

I think you’re right. I also think that giving them attention, instead of properly one-offing them, is far more than they deserve and also legitimizes their behaviour. There’s no point arguing. It doesn’t matter. It’s not worth it. The topic is irrelevant anyway. And the arguments that “people need to be taught” is self serving at best, especially when the situation shows that it doesn’t ■■■■■■■ matter anyway.

Please don’t get banned.
Please don’t let emotional “thinkers” drag you down to their level.

Thank you. :slight_smile:

(Mayhaw Morgan) #32

This statement is patently false. You are out of touch with reality.

Reality is this: an event in the game catalyzed events out of the game. There is no magical barrier separating “in-game” from “out-of-game”. There IS no magic. What happens in EVE happens in the real world. You can’t just leave reality. Think about what you are saying.

Yes. Are you caught up, yet?

A real idiot or just a space idiot in EVE Online?

(Faylee Freir) #33

Probably a space idiot since you’re posting as an avatar of a character. So I get what you’re saying to an extent and I can agree a little with you. I do think that the face to face, human to another human in flesh is very different than what most players experience when it comes to scams, heists, and metagaming. It pushes the boundary a bit, but overall I think it’s fine.

I can easily see an argument there though. The differences are simple in my opinion. You have one guy that used a face to face dinner with another player to “flip” him in order to tear an alliance apart. That person used a video games mechanics to steal everything he could and ruin an alliance… the other side to that is you have an alliance leader that saw his work in the game come to ruins at the hand of another player. In that moment he asked his alliance of a few thousand+ to find out The Judges name, address, and other information. He then makes a vague threat about The Judge using his hands while he’s still able to. The dismemberment part is less important that Gigx broadcasting to his alliance that he wants The Judge doxxed.

The difference is that The Judge broke no in-game rules while Gigx did. What good is your metagaming if it gets you banned. Sure you left your mark and your comments may not ever be forgotten, but which part of what Gigx did was metagaming that will persist through his ban… other than Gigx leaving his crumbling alliance without a figurehead where a bad situation could have been salvaged?

(Nana Skalski) #34

Judge broke rules. The other rules.

But as all of his actions resulted in game assets only being affected, his potential punishment should have been limited to the game and executed by the ones affected.

(Faylee Freir) #35

What ‘other’ rules did The Judge break? Why should he be punished for playing the game in a way that is allowed by CCP?

(yellow parasol) #36

Judge didn’t get banned, sweetheart…

(Nana Skalski) #37

He was not banned because its only a game, but in this game breaking rules can also affect the traitor. And it should have stayed that way, everything in the game.

Conflicts are encouraged by CCP.

(Mayhaw Morgan) #38

I think you are working hard to avoid coming to a sensible conclusion about it. What happened to Gigx was unfair and wrong . He is actually the victim, here, and not just a “space victim”, but also a real-life victim. By your own admission, others conspired against him, not in New Eden, but at a restaurant, in real life. Maybe you think admitting that means we have to “fix” it somehow?

I am not saying you, I, or CCP needs to change ourselves or the game. I am saying that The Judge did something wrong and unfair and failing to acknowledge that is wrong and unfair. And if you fail to acknowledge that something is wrong and unfair, YOU are wrong, and maybe even an immoral person.
That is the limit of my contention.

(ProteusMagnus) #39

Isn’t the live stream used Twitch owned by Amazon? I’d be curious as to the policy agreement for using their product. He may have broken their rules and if so could have RL consequences for those actions.

(Faylee Freir) #40

What was unfair and wrong about it? You are right, Gigx and all of CO2 were victims of a heist in a video game where heists and scams of this nature are not only allowed, but used as marketing tools.

Explain how he is a real life victim, and of what?

I don’t think it’s a problem really. A few dudes that were at a restaurant for a video game thing sat and talked about video games. All we know what was said was Aryth asked The Judge, “you know… you could join goons”.

Are you trying to link what happened as some kind of crime that should have real life implications? If communicating out of game about a scam, theft, awox, or heist is going to be illegal then I’m a criminal too. My first theft was 50b from the first corp I ever joined. One year into playing I was in a group text with a real life friend and one of my corpmates and we conspired how to take everything from a corporation in a video game about pretend things.

The whole premise of all this falls apart when the fact that it’s a game is brought into play. This is what CCP has created for us to play in.

Yes I am a mean and ruthless space person. Outside of eve I’m a hard working southern man that loves his family and tries to do good by everyone.

This game is an immersive experience where you are allowed to be a bad guy. That is completely unique to most video games. So some people play bad guys here… that doesn’t make them the equivalent in real life. I’m not big into armchair psychology or what you think is right or wrong in the realm of a video game that actively promotes this sort of behavior. HTFU.

I do believe it is owned by Amazon. Twitch has their own set of rules and terms that users must abide by. What exactly was wrong with the stream, other than Gigx asking his entire alliance of a few thousand people to find the personal information of another player? Oh yeah and the dismemberment, can’t forget that.

Are you trying to make a case that Gigx was being bullied and The Judge streamed it? I don’t think that can apply namely because it took place in a game. A game that is about this sort of thing and is actively allowed by CCP. This type of event is something CCP wants in their game because it serves as a marketing tool.

Theres a huge difference in actual bullying, and stealing people internet coins in a game that permits it, then talking a little smack doesn’t qualify.

Step outside and get some fresh air. I hear reality feels good this time of year.

(ProteusMagnus) #41

I’ll assume the post below my quote was directed at me. You offered an opinion to my quote. Its your entitlement and I wont begrudge you that.

I offered no opinion. I ask a question. The question (my curiosity) about policy for a product. I’ll look up the info when I have time. I have no stake in this event and clearly didn’t infer anything remotely close to your assertion. Its not for me to try and validate an action or reaction to said event. Please try to read my post again and leave your goggles on the desk.

The lines between real life and virtual life are rather murky and I doubt even CCP can definitively take a stand on a hard set of rules for such and I doubt you are able to with any real clarity.

"This type of event is something CCP wants in their game because it serves as a marketing tool."
Hmm… interesting

(Faylee Freir) #42

I assumed you were hinting at that, which is why I went on my tangent. I agree that the lines between real life and our virtual avatar are murky. That’s why when scandals like Erotica1’s bonus room is seen as real life harassment and other cases aren’t, it can be quite confusing as to where CCP does stand. There’s a balance between someone claiming that they are experiencing real life grief after a loss or getting ganked and sending your entire alliance out to find the personal details of a player, before threatening him.

Yes it is a marketing tool.

“time is on your side to settle scores”

“Alliances are held together bytrust. You break that trust, you break the alliance”

“You can keep building power, or you can take your revenge. The fate of an empire rests on you”

“Without firing a single shot you’ve brought an entire alliance to its knees”

This video is one of many reasons why A LOT of players start in the first place. Your actions mean something. Losses mean something. The player interaction is unmatched in any other video game. It is this very reason that Eve Online is not for everyone. It’s not friendly to casuals, it’s not friendly to to overly sensitive people, and it’s not friendly to those that are easily manipulated.

So yes, this kind of event is a marketing tool. You see headlines on gaming websites and blogs talking about this sort of thing. I am willing to bet relevant searches for “Eve Online” have surged since then.

(Faylee Freir) #43

I take the part about casuals back. There are lots of ways you can be a casual player and enjoy the game.

(ProteusMagnus) #44

No actually I wasn’t hinting at that. I took your word for face value only considering this event specifically. That video and many others from CCP is why I too downloaded this game. Causality vid could include events such as this but not exclusively.

If someone else doesn’t link,list or point out any violations in the Twitch “policy” as I previous stated,I will find the info myself and read it thoroughly and make my own conclusions. Why? Because I can. Nothing more,nothing less.