So you assume I only have 1 character… Wow. ok. over 10 years on my other character thanks. But hey. you know it all. Also as with anything new. The people that just wanted to try it out will be done after a few months. You will then have your steady group of people that continue to do it. Making changes willy nilly from the beginning will kill content.
Quite a few of the people I talk to play one evening and take the next evening off to do things with friends and family. Right now it is mostly a numbers advantage.
Not psychic. Don’t have a crystal ball to peer into your soul or your other characters.
A few months of re-re-re-re-re-insurgency would mean having to get the same systems to suppression stage five multiple times. The adverse health effects will hit before that.
It’s not a willy nilly change. It’s a carefully thought through fix of currently broken content for the express purpose of giving people time to recuperate before having to do the hellgrind again while preserving the Pirate’s content generation. Hence me not talking about insurgency spawn times or the like. You should have the content you desire. Just not at the cost of another player’s health.
So, let me ask it bluntly, do you think your desire for content should cost other players their health or bleed them from the game to preserve it?
1 insurgency a month? They can only last max 2 weeks. I will agree if they turn off all system flipping in FW for 2 weeks at a time. As it may be dangerous to their health to go every day and try to keep a system. And take away all asteroid belts for 2 week per month and moon mining. As they may no life it and mine rocks all day for the almighty isk.
Sorry. If people find it to stressful or time consuming just do something else. Not that hard. Why change the game because of how you feel it may or may not affect people. The next system is up. It sure won’t be reaching dammalin. So I don’t see how that is affecting a re re on that system. No insurgency on them in this round. 2 weeks off at least.
Anyway. I am done with your post. You wanting to change the game to assist one side is called a nerf. Sorry you don’t see it that way. Especially after one month in. One last point to your health and safety. Should they eliminate combat? How long did some of the largest fights in the game last. Was it healthy for all those involved? Did you conduct a survey to find out? Can you share it?
Enjoy the content as it was presented. Log off when you need to. Stop complaining about the content that you obviously don’t want.
They can, by just not participating in the grind, why would you if you don’t like it? If you don’t like corruption 5 state in a system, just go to one of the other thousands of systems not having that state for a few days.
Where do I say this…you just plain refuse to read. I can’t help with that.
One insurgency can last two weeks. If one insurgency ends the next one is there ready to go. We are already seeing systems hit by subsequent insurgencies with hours inbetween.
Then you off the rails. Because you didn’t read the OP. You can’t hope to be constructive in your posting if you refuse to read. I understand this is frustrating, but that frustration is yours and yours alone.
Some people don’t feel like they have that choice. Your unwillingness to uderstand this can’t be helped.
So much antagonism. But let me explain, getting involved in combat in a ship requires undocking. This is a choice that people can make for themselves. Feeling forced to undock for days on end or see everything burn is a different kind of beast entirely. If you lack the empathy to understand that, I can’t help with that.
Not if people live in that highsec system. Corruption stage five would drop it to lowsec and would result in nullblocks burning the lot. Getting to suppression stage five only protects for a single insurgency now. And re-re-re-re-re-insurgency is definitely possible. This means defenders have no choice but to hellgrind every time CCP pushes the insurgency button.
Then you need to move, ideally to a 0.8, higher, or shielded system, not that hard in EvE. Choices, participate, watch, grind against, or moving a few jumps over.
Yet you’re so invested in your gameplay that you can’t see the point he’s making, or just don’t care to…
CCP have designed something that requires such an inordinate amount of time it’s truly ridiculous, so players then face a difficult choice.
Put in stupid health damaging amounts of time to defend something they have worked their arses off for and to build, sometimes for years…or just roll over and watch it all get destroyed, years of work, gone at the whim of someone in CCP still trying to force the narrative and push PVP on HS residents who mainly just want to chill after work.
BTW, has anyone else noticed how many alt accounts are crawling out of the woodwork?
Crimsomjade, Axium Cog, El Profii, Jeod Hanaya, Dak Rattler, Coly, Malak Starfire are all playing Angel content and as such have a vested interest in minimizing the concerns I have voiced.
Garce Courtland can’t be found on zKill.
You are all trying to detract from legitimate health concerns for reasons unknown. This isn’t about risking stuff, it’s about player health and CCP’s duty of care. Shame on all of you for trying to infuse this with partisan politicking…
You ignored my point that your infrastructure at risk is on the edge of a warzone and one option to solve your woes is relocation, so you would be beyond the reach of corruption.
You are equally, trying to dismiss the points raised by the Angel side of the faction as politicking so aren’t really making an argument in good faith.
Nine comments by Angel players in the space of little over an hour all minimizing concerns voiced while refusing to actually engage with the original post…of course I am going to make a sweeping statement on those without engaging. Not even sure they aren’t all the alts of the same person now that I am looking back at that part of the thread.
Was pointing out that being on the attacking side and being able to do so without having to look back is markedly different from having to defend.
And you well know the infrastructure has always been at risk…mostly by you and yours while still in Amarr Militia, either through direct attacks or hired guns.
An ex-Amarr player still trying to burn Minmatar space telling Minmatar to relocate. If we are talking arguments made in less then good faith
I agree there is not much incentive to fight against the insurgency, CCP should definitely add something more there. The bonus to suppression next time upon reaching a certain level is a good idea.
Really though, if you or your friends are suffering in real life then you are taking things too seriously. The insurgency content is tons of fun. Move your stuff or tell the other people to move and make the topic title “New content not worth playing for our side.”
How many more systems do Minmatar have over Amarr atm? One side winning over another is not indicative of a need for a nerf or buff. You are asking for the equilivant of making it easier for Amarr to take systems over that of Minmatar because they have less systems. Current numbers are bloated due to free omega, FotM/FoMo, and excitement over Pirates finally seeing some RP love.
It’s the same work of getting a system to corruption five. Consider me properly informed.
You refuse to see that it’s the same game play as traditional faction warfare and just don’t like being on the losing side where you are outnumbered. (BTW GalMil has been outnumbered for ages and does fairly well for themselves, they’ve even had to deal with null blocks joining CalMil to grind for Navy Phoenixes and you didn’t see them whine and complain nearly as much). Everything about Insurgencies is temporary and doesn’t even last long enough to threaten high sec structures.
It’s preying on people who have ignored warnings, I don’t see the issue here, and again structures aren’t really threatened due to the length of insurgencies.
Attacking players are putting in the same amount of hours as defenders, less effort than that of traditional Faction Warfare btw. Should we make it easier to flip those systems as well? No one is forcing you to put in more hours than you want to put into the game. Learn to manage your time better. You are not losing anything by not logging in. More players are playing the game, that is good for CCP.
Move? As in run away from places that were held at great expense during the Triglavian invasion? Or participate endlessly to re-re-re-re-re-defend the systems you already defended?
No suffering yet. But since the Triglavian content showed us and more importantly made clear to CCP what can go wrong with players IRL this shouldn’t be repeated and the solution shouldn’t be “Move your stuff”.
Currently, the Amarr hold 24 systems to 46 in Minmatar hands. But the Amarr had a civil war in their militia and a fair few of them went Angel Cartel. So it’s not quite representative for anything resembling a status quo.
If you would kindly read the OP it would have been clear to you that what I want to see is not having to repeat the same defense before people have had time to unwind after the last defense but only for the systems that were, in fact, fully defended by reaching suppression stage five.
When you state “current numbers are bloated” it indicates you understand and have seen a numerical advantage on the Angel Cartel player side. Making this next statement you made fall flat:
If your are up against a more numerous adversary, you have to work harder to get the same result. Your denial of this does not make this less true.
It is not the same gameplay. As far as the content goes, everybody has been winning. But it’s definitely not the same gameplay, it’s a lot denser, to name just one difference. The rats are a much bigger factor, to name another. It plays a lot more like the Triglavian invasion content then Faction Warfare content.
Furthermore trying to paint me as a sore loser is painful to watch when I am, as per the OP, advocating for a slight increase in the value of reaching suppression stage five in the system it was reached in for the express purpose of giving defending players a bit of a breather before the next hellgrind. Again, read the OP.
The assumption that structure aren’t under threat is one I don’t adhere to. The content is way to fresh to be able to make that assumption.
And nowhere do I mention “preying on people”, those are your words, not mine.
Attacking players are not, in fact, putting in the same amount of hours. You yourself stated there is a numerical imbalance so the Angel Cartel players have a larger pool of participants to pick from and thus need less hours from it’s participants to put in the same amount of hours overall.
The goal is one that allows the Angel Cartel player to log off and go do other stuff without any fear of losses. The most they might lose is a raiding opportunity. This is in sharp contrast to the defending side, that stands to lose everything that isn’t in an NPC station.
Hot content like this might, for now, get more people to put more hours into the game, but if this results in player burnout CCP will bleed players overall. That is not good for CCP and not good for the EVE ecosystem.
I think it would the best to reevaluate your emotional investment in space pixels. Maybe the unhealthiness you claim to be a problem is then going away.
It’s no different from multiple invasions and the reconquering or redefending of systems in traditional faction warfare. If you want suppression to last for longer, then so should corruption…which I doubt you want as that would actually put high sec structures under threat and raise the stakes of insurgencies.
I never said anything about a status quo. Just an observation of what has happened. Havoc has been out for less than a month, we have NO idea what the new equilibrium will be once people who don’t do FW normally leave and the hype dies down. Pirate Militia numbers are not going to remain this high.
Nah, just means you have more targets to shoot at. Most run at any sign of opposition. I’ve been on the less numerous side…not only does it make you a better pvp’er, but your LP becomes more valuable. The side with numbers are barely getting any LP.
It is the same game play, density doesn’t change the mechanics. It’s literally the same code as other plexes but with more rats. Speaking of rats, 3 instead of 1 is not much of a difference, especially when most of them just shoot at your allied rats.
Ah just ignore the facts, and trust your feelings?
Yes, those are my words. I don’t hide what we do and acknowledge what raiding entails…it’s the reward for winning control of the system.
It is the same hours, and Angels do have more people, so we can share the load more. Recruit more people into MinMil if you want to balance it out, don’t demand a change to tip the scales in your favor. Again, the same thing would have to happen to make things easier for the Amarr since they are losing.
But when you log off, you don’t lose anything either. You are simply misleading or have been mislead into thinking that you will somehow lose something.
Learn to manage your own time to avoid burnout. Everyone has different limits. We as a playerbase actually wanted less of a downtime, not more (hence the cooloff time shortening change.)
Dismiss that part of the playerbase at your leisure. I will not and am indicating this will, like the Triglavian invasion content, cause issues down the line. Those issues being, in order of likelihood, player burnout (CCP loses subscription), player’s mental health suffers and least likely but most grave player’s physical health suffers. At the playerbase size Eve has, it’s a numbers game. And CCP has a duty of care that has increased after the Triglavian Invasions made clear that a part of the playerbase, when put under such pressure, will respond in unhealthy ways. This is known, CCP has the metrics to quantify this.
And while I will always advocate for proper balance I cannot be in every discord voice channel telling people they need their sleep.
hey I’m new to the forum. Not in the game, just started again.
I read a lot & skimmed towards the end ^^
The opinions are interesting. Pirate players defend the mechanic, while citizens complain that it disrupts their industry & causes losses/delays. Also that defenses are borne at their own expense.
I got back into it & everything is almost new to me ^^ including the trigs. This principle that you can change the map by event I found quite cool. Since Highsec is untouchable for drastic changes.
I actually want to become a guristas & try that too. But the standing is difficult to increase. I have to go halfway across the galaxy to find some arc agents, which I could only find out by asking & YT very cumbersome.
Apart from that, my PI is now also a war zone & I was thinking of doing an arc to help the militia against Angels, in a Guristas outfit xD
As someone already said you are as a citizen. Especially without a bigger corp you are doomed to burn T1 ships as you have to compensate losses yourself. Then you actually have to form fleets with randoms or try to do something on your own.
It would be cool if the NPC states had a bit more plasticity. That they respond more to this threat. E.g. that the Minmatar declare martial law & raise something like Foreign legions. That e.g. joining the militia is simplified (“simplified bureaucracy”). You are better paid for kills as a combatant.
Perhaps you could also set up a fleet of war vehicles. The NPC states, capsuleers supply combatants at military stations with war equipment. Like free ships that can’t be traded or something & are returned at the end of the event. Navy versions, for example, so that you can do better against Bling.
It would also look cool if the militias could use these war lease ships when they want to save money. Because they are Navy versions & only cost the fitting. Everyone would have the right look Richer people could still use their own bling.
Or that for pirates the highsec becomes less safe. Because e.g. in neighboring systems the NPC Navy sets up warp bubbles & suchlike themselves. To make it more difficult for criminals to warp directly to other gates/stations. A better blockade with more sense than just a bunch of navy at gates ^^ & fixed posts. So you can’t lure gate guards away like Concord.
I mean actually, give the NPC states more brains xD what would they really do about something like that without it getting really unfair.
These are just a few free thoughts ^^ it’s interesting what others would think.
I think your proposals are pretty good.
maybe for proposal 1, go further and when lvl 5 reached reset the opposing teams to 0 within that system.
for proposal 2, maybe previous suppression 5 defense is ‘on standby for 4 weeks’ so that if new insurgency expands there it starts at a set suppression level, depending how soon after it is (e.g. 2 weeks later - starts at level 3) (this could actually better than not allowing it as it is another system that should be easy to get to 5, which is closer to a win.
Having said that it is pretty soon to know if mechanics need changing as Angel numbers are way higher than Empire for an ideal evenly matched war, If they even out the mechanics might be fine.
It might help to further push the numbers to be more even by giving Empire a new recruitment incentive - like a fleet tornado, mael or rag for example
I think some real disadvantages to joining the Pirate side will become more clear over time, that I am just noticing now. Challenging logistics and having no real ‘home’, we either park up in Gallente space as pirates hidden in another empire, or just permanently reside in amarr-min fw low sec. (or zarzak / null, currently a pain)
Another thing I noticed is a real draw to actual piracy and lowering of sec status (note the abubdan gate camp), which I think is fitting, but furthers the logistics, and where to live problem.
I’m not complaining about any of these (well maybe the zarzakh one), I think they are fitting, but when they are more apparent to everyone it should make Empire side seem more desirable to many.
My main is in Angel btw - just a solo dude, without any influence
Most of your ideas would take a full development cycle to work out and implement and would have a huge impact on gameplay as well as defer some of the risk involved with playing. As such, while interesting, they are better suited to a separate thread.
What I will respond to is the claim people who engage with the content are citizens. The players that engaged with Faction Warfare content before Havoc were militia for one of the four empires, in alphabetical order, Amarr, Caldari, Gallente or Minmatar. Havoc changed that by introducing two extra options, Guerista and Angel Cartel that get to impact either the Caldari - Gallente or the Amarr - Minmatar warzone. They are classified as Pirates. As such playing the content as intended wil have some effect on their ability to get around, as stated by SmokeMeAKipper:
The logistic and where to live problems the Guerista and Angel Cartel players start to face have been around for Faction Warfare players since the introduction of Faction Warfare, including the draw to piracy. Gallente and Minmatar Faction Warfare players have been denied easy use of Jita since the inception of Faction Warfare iirc. Only recently the Minmatar Faction Warfare players regained easier access to Jita. The Gallente Faction Warfare player remains effectively locked out of Jita.
Actually, that is what I am proposing. People don’t want to be subjected to having to re-re-re-re-re-win content already won a week ago. This is not a crazy desire but something that deserves to be taken seriously. Unless you are not looking for contest but just getting to burn stuff because the Havoc design flaws broke the other side on the 20th round of insurgency in as many weeks.
This is fine, but I am talking about pressure more serious then this. The Triglavian Invasion was brutal on people living in the systems under attack, but winning or losing meant the direct pressure abated. Some people, however became enmeshed in defending all of highsec as Edencom or obsessed with taking all systems to Pochven on the Triglavian side.
This pressure felt resulted in a small portion of players going way to far in a measurable and palpable way. CCP re-introducing such pressure is playing with the fire that is their duty of care. Once is an incident, but re-introduction resulting in clearly predictable harm to some of the playerbase is a quagmire.
And the mechanics have taken away player choice, not given choice. The content is inflicted on the players by way of CCP manually selecting systems to subject to insurgency (don’t think we didn’t notice that). The defending player is relegated to contending with the content and YOUR nullblock, among others looking to eat their enjoyment of the game, not just for one insurgency but for an infinite number of consecutive insurgencies that all have to be won in order to not see a system burn.
Edit: some incomplete sentences and clarification.
All they have to do is not do the content if they are burnt out from it…why force a change? It’s not like wardecks where people could actually lose stuff for not logging in.
very cumbersome.