Triglavian Invasion; A Good Short-Sighted Idea with Poor Long-Term Consideration

Dear CCP and fellow Capsuleers,

The Triglavian Invasion content and specifically the 3rd Chapter, have proven to be an outstanding source of content for all of us. Everyone present is likely to enjoy EVE and the fact we are here means most of us have been able to break through the known difficult entry barrier of EVE and even make a profit from the opportunity the Triglavian Invasion provides.

Regrettably, the implementation of a permanent effect alongside the possibility to contribute towards the permanent Invasion of a system (when someone has the opportunity to do “evil” most rise to that opportunity) has again proven CCP’s disregard of the largest issue with EVE since it’s launch, namely the barrier for New Player entry and their retention.

As the CEO of a Corporation whose sole purpose has been to facilitate the integration of New Capsuleers into the wonderful world of New Eden for the last 2+ years, I can testify firsthand to the difficulties of ensuring that a new Capsuleer is subjected to the environment and game mechanics in a timely manner whilst promoting an informed decision on remaining in EVE regardless of losses, thanks to the education the Training Program provides and the manner in which it provides it.

As it currently stands, the Triglavian Invasion, although fun and dynamic as it has been to us more seasoned Capsuleers, has done nothing but contribute to the New-Comer’s “f-ck this sh-t, I jumped through a gate and lost all my sh-t to some random NPCs besides I haven’t a clue wtf I am doing and the game doesn’t do anything to actively point me in the right direction” decision to abandon EVE and likely for good, which is why I created my Corp in the first place. Although this may seem fine to most short-sighted Capsuleers who are contempt with shooting at (yet more and more) veterans’ Alts, a lack of actual New Player retention promotes a stagnancy towards the health of EVE.

Having lost the system of -name-redacted- where my zero-income operation is based, and spending time and effort in relocating all of the Corp’s assets to a neighboring system, which hindered the progress of the current Training Cycle and in turn resulted in losing 90% of the Trainees it was Training (they AWOLed and haven’t been on since), really got me to ponder on the general approach of CCP and the current situation’s impact on New-Player Retention. Especially since tomorrow my Corp’s current System might be next, and it’s fate relies solely on having more of Capsuleers in favor of and making more of an effort to “save” the system than those in favor of having it permanently invaded.

I appreciate the “filtering process” which leads to a specific player-type to remain while discarding those who do not have the ability needed to enjoy New Eden, but this latest installment has crossed the line and displayed nothing but a lack of consideration for the New Capsuleer experience and New Player Health of EVE on the part of CCP and those who promote the Triglavian Invasion’s Final Liminality stage of any system.
Bare in mind that even “Beginner” and “Career” Systems were allowed to be targeted by the Invasion’s algorithm.

I beg of CCP to consider and do what is needed to ensure that a New Capsuleer’s experience be one that promotes that they remain in New Eden or at least (as I have attempted to do so far) promote that a New Capsuleer receives a less hectic and slightly more forgiving experience so they may remain for at least enough time to make a more educated decision on whether or not EVE is something they might (and likely will) enjoy.

This post does not serve to push a subjective opinion on “who should you fight for”, rather possibly shed light on an overlooked aspect to something essential in any game in general, and the health of EVE in particular.

Closing Points (the above summarized):

  • The Triglavian Invasion has been great for Seasoned Capsuleer engagement.
  • The Triglavian Invasion has been detrimental to the New Capsuleer experience.
  • A hostile first experience does not promote as much new-player retention as an experience which rewards effort in a somewhat less chaotic environment than what the Triglavian Invasion is.
  • A healthy increase in New Capsuleers (actual new players) will result in a more beneficial situation to CCP and the current player-base than the short-sighted long-term in-game world changing effects of the Triglavian Invasion.

References (besides 1st hand experience for my entire life in New Eden):

Article on the decline of logged on “Players”.
-“Players” is deceptive as it does not count humans, rather accounts. A Player might have 1-30.
-This is dated during the “Null-Sec Blackout” and the start of the “Bot Crackdown” era.

Steam Charts for active Players.
-This seems to only reflect Players logged in through Steam
-Note the spike in 2016 when Alpha state happened and more advertisement was placed.
-Note the recent “zig-zag” likely caused by: new player income and immediate loss, bot crack-downs, added accounts for daily login rewards and Triglavian Invasion bypass of related standings issues.

Interview with senior brand manager Sæmundur Hermannsson.
-Somehow they believe that the Triglavian Invasion is contributing to “New Players” joining.

The EVE Online Ecosystem Outlook - Devblog from 2020-03-30

Link to Discussion on New Player System Invasion.

Link to Article on the New Player System invasion.


Is this a fact?


When the one area within the world which gave the little leeway for a New Capsuleer to get acquainted with the mechanics on their own terms is negligently taken away piece by piece and with no way to predict, yes, it factually crosses the final line where any actually New Player might consider giving their new game any chance.
It is hard for most people to remember their origins, but consider if you would enter a new world you are unfamiliar with, everything seems complicated, nothing actually points you in a sensible direction, you are suggested by the tutorial to activate a setting which will make you even more vulnerable, and then you make your first jump and get destroyed before completing said sh-ty tutorial, I cannot believe that many people who are not masochistic would consider this an experience to which they wish to give a second chance.


So this is a thought experiment? You are using your imagination to ascertain when there is a problem - and you have determined that now there is a problem?

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I like that “THINK OF THE CHILDREN!” is every bit as insincere when people use it in Eve Online as it is when they use it in the real world.


fun fact: I specifically joined EVE to help the trigs become a permeant place in this game, and it’s one of the main reason i stick around to play. you have numbers on that my friend?


Heh, so you CREATED an alt character specifically for that content.



When someone has the opportunity to do “evil,” a small amount will rise to that opportunity, while the majority will do nothing but vocally complain. It’s true in EVE, and in real life as well.

Here’s a question for you: do you teach them to fight, or how to avoid fighting so that they can continue to mine Veldspar and run level 2 missions?

Sounds like a heck of an interesting game to me, and outside of some kinky spanking, I’m no masochist.

EVE is not for everyone.

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Whilst I have some sympathy with what you are saying I do think that as a CEO of a corp who has spent 2+ years training newbies then you you your team should have been teaching those new players about the cold harsh world of eve. Trig Invasions, FOBS, ganking, scams etc etc, allowing them to build their knowledge of some of these harsh events.

What do you teach the new people in the corp? what does the training cycle consist of?

I get very much that that would be a pain in the arse, but that would have been an ideal opportunity to get the corp members to come together and help eachother out. Basically here is a problem, this is how we solve it.

Some people leave for reasons, again if they had been informed of eve and it’s ways, or even provided information on the fors and againsts of an invaded system then perhaps they would have stayed rather than run at the first sign of trouble.


Plus it’s just demonstrably false. There were plenty of folks who showed up to do evil, but the heroic kybernauts bravely held their ground and won the day.

It would have been a lot trickier if most people had thrown in with the villainous Edencom.


I am sorry I didn’t make myself clear.
Objective facts are not based on imagination or subjective emotion or feelings.
The Problem is blatant and has been so since the beginning of EVE with the exception of a short time when proper advertisement alongside a free-to-play approach was launched as an incentive.
I have experienced this issue every day since subjecting myself to the training of New Capsuleers.
The difficult learning curve the game refuses to veer away from is both intriguing to people like you and me, but prevents any other potential player with any degree less of patience from remaining.

These “numbers” @Laika_Kalishaka refers to change constantly and as mentioned in the original text above are not clear since just as you claim to be a new player, it is hard to believe you suddenly heard of some random game and decided to choose a side without ever playing it. Most likely (another) Alt, but I refuse to jump to conclusions.

From launching my Training Corp the (estimated sometimes higher and sometimes lower) numbers are as follows within each Training Cycle:

-from 100% applicants:

  • 70% don’t make it through the initial “Alt” and “uninterested/leave the game before admittance” filtering process and admitted

-from the 100% who are admitted:

  • 30% never finalize their absorption and leave the game (become inactive)

-from the 100% who have their first Lesson and engage in the activities the Program provides:

  • 40% prove to be Alts trying to gain (steal/spy) something and realize there is nothing for them to gain
  • 10% are in fact new and join on their Alt, but their main is sucked into some Null-Sec Corp and making them mine/PvE all day so they go stagnant
  • 10% are in fact Alts who see that there is much to be gained from learning how EVE mechanics work in all aspects of the game (if you know how a miner mines, you know how to gank them more effectively)
  • 40% are truly new players and benefit from the service my Corp provides

-from the 100% that Graduate:

  • 80% go on to their Future Corps well equipped to integrate into the Corp without the Future Corp having to spend time on Training them or give them mundane tasks until they get around to teaching them how to tackle, and able to make an educated decision as to what they might be interested in doing in EVE
  • 15% leave and become inactive anyways, but sometimes return well equipped, etc…
  • 4% remain in my Corp and loiter until expelled for long-term inactivity
  • 1% remain and become active contributors and assist in the Corp’s goal to do it all over again every 6 weeks.
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As it stands, Since the Triglavian Invasion those potential finalists have been quartered in numbers.

It looks like only ~14 players (some are alts, including your own) have joined your corp in 2020, it’s hard to treat your numbers as statistically significant.

Although all this information is transparently available within EVE, my Corp’s Info, the website, and zKillboard, I will grace you with an answer:
Yes, all Trainees go through a comprehensive and detailed Traning Program which subjects the Trainees to every aspect of the game and prioritizes the PvP core aspect of EVE alongside the tools to survive.

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Then you’ll just have to come to terms with the true player retention rate in this game hovering in the low single digits. Don’t feel bad; it’s like that even for powerhouse games such as DotA, or PUBG, or Counter-Strike. It’s just that many more players try those games than EVE.

Have you considered telling your recruits “YOU ARE GOING TO GET ■■■■■■, SO PUCKER THAT ASSHOLE OR GET THE ■■■■ OUT NOW” right at the beginning? It works for me when I train new players. It’s important to set proper expectations. The players who leave then would’ve left later anyway.

I really and truly doubt that the Trig stuff is actually affecting new player retention. Want to know why? Because for new players, it’s the norm. They don’t have a frame of reference to get upset about it, because it’s not like they can say “well ■■■■, all these systems used to be safe, and now that got taken away from me, so go screw yourselves, CCP!”

The personal life situation justifying my long term hiatus in the earlier half of the year will not be provided, and the fact that a task such as unbiased New Capsuleer Training requires my (and the non-existent other Teachers in my 0-personal-ambition Corp) availability means that when Teachers are not available it would be wrong to promise a 5-week Training program and neglect them after joining, but the fact that in the one Training Cycle I managed to complete in 2020 only ~14 players made it through (2 of them my Alts for future projects) should really be evidence of an overall. Especially considering that I have yet to complete a Training Cycle with 10 genuinely new players in it.

What? That tells us absolutely nothing. It tells us that that’s how many players passed through your corp, but the idea that your small new-player-training corp nobody had heard of before this thread is some sort of bellwether for the entire game is silly.

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You put it very lightly here and do not emphasize as well as I do in my Training, nor do you point out the reward for dealing with this, but I am sure that you are omitting that purposefully. Yes, they are made very aware.

Your frame of reference is “I wanna play this game I heard was so cool” and then get blown up with 0 understanding of what is going on.

It isn’t, it is a very good idea of the situation considering the admittance process and the target Capsuleer-type (genuinely new, willing to learn, or seasoned and willing to teach with no expectation of personal gain besides the long-term health of the community) of my Corp.
Especially since the Training Program reproduces these low numbers every Training Cycle.

The bellwether you mention is throughout the game itself.

“I wanna play this game I heard was so cool where you can build an empire while blowing up each other’s spaceships.”

How many people download this expecting it to be a space-themed Cookie Clicker or Flappy Bird? After 17 years, the people who get this game spontaneously after seeing for the very first time is a very small fraction of the new player population. Are you really telling us that there exists a sizable chunk of players that expects to not get their stuff blown up somehow? :neutral_face:

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