Triglavian Invasion; A Good Short-Sighted Idea with Poor Long-Term Consideration

No.
But they very likely expect to understand why, and for it not to happen as their immediate first interaction.

But the initial tutorial literally blows up your ship and laughs at you. :confused:

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Not everyone is as smart and patient as those who decide to remain in EVE after that. And after that happens to them several times. But I believe it would be better for everyone (especially seasoned Capsuleers) for the doors to be at least as merciful as the pre-Chapter 3 Invasions were and allow those who now factor this into their decision to leave, to give it one more chance instead.

Again, I love the idea of capturing systems and making the local NPCs like me or not, but it seems a lot of us are looking at this from the “I don’t mind, I have billions of ISK and just go back out there when I get blown up, I know how to make more ISK” point of view, and forget that there are new kids out there who haven’t a damn clue what “Overview” means until their eyes catch the small text above said window. And anyone who gave the Tutorial a second chance and sat it through upon creating an Alt more recently will know that the Tutorial does a horrible job. The Learning experience comes from the Player interactions and friendly people out there spending time in Rookie chat answering aimless questions all day instead of playing (another reason for the way my Training Program is set up, direction and focus is more educative than asking random questions as they come up), and the blessed YouTube videos, EVE-Uni pages, and player guides on the subjects.

It’s not a problem, it’s a design decision.

By design. Unfortunately it will never attract a huge base as a result. But that is what makes this game special and awesome.

Working as intended.

IMO the invasions have been a great way to shake up the game. It has needed it. The fall of Niarja will usher in change which I’m excited to see.

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Your argument seems to be that some new players, upon getting blown up, rage and quit.

That just doesn’t mesh with the reality of video games in general.

Do these people also quit Battlefield upon loading into a match, and getting shot by an enemy tank? Do they also quit Skyrim after getting mauled by the bear in that cave at the beginning of the game? Do they quit Tetris after their screen fills up with blocks because they had no idea how to use the L piece properly?

Gamers, especially those who tend to get games about shooting stuff, expect that losing their life is part of the game. I sincerely doubt that someone who’s played EVE for an hour, and lost their ship with 143,000 ISK worth of cargo inside after accidentally jumping into low-sec without knowing what they’re doing, will instantly react with Alt+F4 followed by uninstalling the program. I’m sure a small minority does react that way, of course, but those people don’t really count anyway.

I’d guess that most new players quit simply because the game failed to hold their interest.

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Maybe not “excited”, but I am darn well interested to see ehat happens. Again, this is coming from a 3-year-old Capsuleer, not a new one blown up repeatedly by NPCs camping the gate within their first hour of exposure to EVE.

I still think that some solution should be provided where New player experience is in the least as “forgiving” as pre-Chapter 3.

Yes, and I have watched that too, as my 14 yo son is a new capsuleer. He shook it off, said cool and is now an eve addict.

There are many games that are crazy complex and deep. They are almost impossible to have a usable tutorial that covers everything. They attract and keep those who are willing to learn, often the hard way.

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Getting blown up in general, NO.
Being locked in a station and getting blown up by NPCs if you un-dock or leave the system you are in, with basically 0 experience, and having an awful and uninformative Tutorial as the only source of information provided in the game, YES

The problem is a whole and topped off with the Chapter 3 add-on.

Also, as much as I would like to say that:

I make an effort for those people as well, and they turn out to be formidable Capsuleers. Imagine the one’s “we’ve” lost to “this”.

How many people fall into this category? The odds of this happening are very low. And if it does happen, the rational and expected reaction is to ask someone what’s going on, whether on the forums, in the rookie chat, or even in a GM ticket.

I disagree wholeheartedly. This is a personality trait issue, and not a matter of the game being difficult or having improper documentation. If someone, upon meeting some form of adversity, instantly lashes out and quits, that person has some severe underlying flaws as a human. I’ve met such people, and have tried to help them in EVE. It was always a lost cause. Maybe you’re the type who believes that everyone needs to be given a chance, and I don’t think that’s a terrible trait per se, but it certainly isn’t a pragmatic one.

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Although we don’t seem to be agreeing on the original topic, it seems we are agreeing on different less EVE-Specific grounds.

My example of someone “locked in a Station…” is obviously figurative and not to be taken literally, and yes, common sense dictates finding a solution, but as you mentioned later, there are many who in fact remain whilst brandishing this personality and are a burden to deal with, but damnit, it seems you should be (and would probably enjoy) shooting them once your resources are exhausted. Imagine if those in the figurative example I provided remained. You and I would have more targets. They could join your enemies. They could sell you blings the acquired from ratting. They could be the guy that tackles the Cyno and turns the battle in your favor. Every Capsuleer lost due to a less-than-optimal and completely avoidable situation/tutorial/TrigInvasion, is one less member of the diverse community we have and another spot taken by that guy that posted above’s 38th Alt.

Maybe I am talking a lot of coulda woulda, but I hope the idea is clear. I have exhausted my words for the evening and need to reformat all my Templates for the new Home System and Clone Bay and, and, and.

There is a solution because there is a problem. If it wasn’t a problem it would “simply be the way it is”.

Once again, I disagree. The players I’m talking about, the ones who aren’t able to be redeemed, are actually a threat to the game if they end up staying. History has shown that those players will “grow up” to become toxic little goblins who, upon learning enough about the game’s mechanics, will go on the forums and thrash and flail about in an effort to make CCP change the game so that it caters to their selfish needs. They’re the ones asking for ■■■■ like PvP toggles. No, I would much rather have those players quit as soon as they spawn from the womb of the EVE banner ad they clicked on, than make it to the point where they can start to influence CCP with their incessant whining.

Case in point, look at these two posts from this person:


This person equated players on the opposite side of the NPC-driven content that CCP created to wife-beaters. People like that, and the ones who support them, are quite literally cancer for this game.

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Yes it does, that’s been a complaint for many years, however the introduction a lot of us had to Eve was when the new player experience consisted of “here’s a spaceship, screw you”; and we’re still here.

HTFU

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Tissue? :rofl:

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Yes. Those of us here now have HTFU thanks to our patience, determination, and ability/time to keep going. Many of us had a hard time and it was fine. Many of us had an easy time and are still here. Many of us get the exact wrong dose of the wrong stuff with wrong timing and fall out and never return. I am saying, piling more of the stuff that can go wrong on the likely to go wrong formula is gonna give more people convulsions than cure them.

I feel like nothing I wrote in the original line of text was properly read, or maybe I did not present the issue correctly.

Before so many people get upset and run around in panic, let’s wait until after Labor Day (or around mid September) to see where the server population and new character creation is at. Hilmar said in an interview in March that due to Cov-19, EVE had seen a rise of almost double the normal amount of new player characters being produced from 12-14 months earlier . This was after their reversal of NS Blackout and BEFORE the Trig invasion. Now there is normally a September bump (according to Hilmar), but if there is a dramatic slump even with the pandemic rolling along with also a dramatic slump in server population, then you may commence with the panic.

Until then, just adjust and survive the current wave of change. Encourage others to keep calm and stay with the game. Wait to see what CCP does after they return to the office (or computer station) full time. Then decide whether or not to bail.

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Agreed. Where would my integrity be if I quit now.
I take on the challenge every day, and this has only made it more of a challenge.
I just have to keep an eye on the “Target Market” cuz I am tired of sifting through a 90% Alt ratio trying to get in my Training Program, and hiccups like the Chapter 3 adding to the loss of the genuine Trainees.
I mean, I could try and be on the Discord 24/7 to catch them before they undock, and I wish they would all read the Mails I send, but it still happens.

There is one big problem with the invasions.

EDENCOM has nothing to win from it, they can only lose.
Triglavian has nothing to lose from it, they can only win.

This “one side” gain is the biggest crap that is there.
It would have been way better, when the low sec systems, that are a Fortress, become high sec, in term of Concord. This way both side could win something.

But the way it is now, is totally ■■■■■■■■, and just causing these problems.

You can even see it right now. Triglavian do not care for low sec systems under invasion. They just let them happen. They do not want to help the Triglavians, they only care for turning high sec systems to low sec.
And i am afraid, that you will not see a single high sec win for Edencom anymore (as long as it is a star that would allow a Final Limitation).

I have no idea how long this will go on. At what time CCP will do the next “step” for this invasion.
Imo this was the biggest mistake they have done. No clear plan. No clear communication.
And worst, no equal behavior. Null sec should have been invaded as well. But this would have forced the null sec to deal with PVE. This is a no go, you cannot do this. And Null sec could have lost systems this way (to NPCs). Totally not possible.

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There is something in your words, but a little off the original topic.

In any case:

  • there is no apparent gain for EDENCOM except preventing the System from going Null.
  • there should have been a K-Space wide invasion, maybe Anokis as well?
  • there is no apparent reason, but I refuse to believe there is no plan beyond “here, fight and see who wins… oh, I guess this system is Null now”, especially since seasoned developers across many games have been going with a trend of “let’s insert this content now and it will evolve into that, and then we could do something cool in the end that reveals the next stage” kind of mentality.
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I think @Buoytender_Bob said it well.
We should wait and see how this turns out. I refuse to believe this is completely permanent as it stands now, rather some sort of different long-term effect.
The issue is that until then I fear that the actual new player retention is going to suffer, and feel that this Chapter could have been implemented differently. Hindsight and pointless so I will refrain fro elaborating here.
The aim of this post is to promote a sense of awareness on the part of CCP in the case that they stumble across this post, and hope they read English and subtext better than most of the people who have responded here so far when they do.