How CCP screwed over half the participants in the Triglavian Invasions Chapter 3

TL;DR: CCP wrote a four-months-long pve event with a scripted end-result as a lead up to the new content, then gave sneak peak access to it half of the participants in the event, leaving the other half further away from accessing it than the average player who did not participate at all. We were interested in the content and as thanks we are blocked out from it. This was a dick move.

Wall of text follows with more in-depth explanation. If you feel the need to press reply and bash me based on the TL;DR, please read to the end. The very end also has a suggested solution.

Context: I was a major participant in the Triglavian Invasions Chapter 3. I ground the damned sites for four months, I pvped in liminal systems, I was part of the handful of people who cracked which stars the trigs wanted, I built a prediction system for when to expect invasions and got to be known as “The Oracle” for it. I handed out ships, I flew logi and dps, I probed for trigs and I FCed fleets. Day in, day out, for four months. And despite the content having a lot of issues, I enjoyed it, and until the release of Pochven, I was happy I was part of it.

I have played EVE since about launch, and I have more or less done it all at one point or another (I’ve not been a leader of a sovnull alliance and I have not lived in a particular wormhole system for a prolonged period, but pretty much everything else I have tried out), and I think the Chapter 3 content overall even with all its problems was new and interesting and the mechanics brought in have a lot of promise for eg making factional warfare more interesting.

To understand why I am not happy anymore, you have to understand something crucial about this kind of storyline events. The end result of Chapter 3 is a whole new region with new rules, new graphics, new types of NPCs, etc. That is a development effort that takes a lot of developer-hours to make. It is an effort that will not be simply thrown away because players fail to achieve some arbitrary goal. The Triglavian region was always a thing that would happen, and most people who participated have been well aware of this since June.

And it’s ok. Events like this are not like soccer matches where either side can win on an even field and will then have the prize; they are more like professional wrestling. The outcome and main events are broadly scripted. There is a lot of improvisation and fun fights and the participants can still during the show change how exactly something happens, but they cannot really change if it happens. In Chapter 3 players could have an effect of where exactly the liminalities happen, but they could not really decide if. There’s nothing wrong with a bit of professional wrestling. As the old GM maxim from tabletop games says, no one minds being on rails if the scenery is good.

In short, the crucial bit to understand is: the story was always about triglavians invading, they would end up doing just that, and that’s ok. As someone who played Edencom in this event and has participated in a lot of storyline events during my 17 years in EVE, I fully expected the story to end in some kind of a triglavian victory, or at best in a truce. Then we’d get some kind of nice things and bits of Scope videos about how great invaders or valiant defenders we are for all who participated, we’d get some Triglavian related end-content for everyone, and the story would move on.

Well, that’s not quite how it turned out. As the end state of the event, CCP released the new Triglavian region, called Pochven. This region at the moment is maybe not that exciting, but it is new, and it has new kinds of NPCs, new rules, new mechanics. A lot of people, including us, anticipated this happening and prestaged in the liminal systems, preparing to have pewpew and gawk over whatever is to come. Participants on both sides in Chapter 3 were quite excited about the next stage. While we on the Edencom side knew there’d not be real “taking back” those systems in the game mechanic sense, we expected fun fights, exploration roaming, and challenging fights with the new and probably hostile to us NPCs present.

So far, so good. Only - on release, it turned out that CCP had locked the internal gates in the region to rely on at least +3 Triglavian standings. Due to how Chapter 3 worked, most of us who put hours and hours into this event on the other side had standings in the range of -2 to -7. This means that those who played the Triglavian part in Chapter three can roam the region freely, but no one else, including participants in Chapter 3 who played the part of the opposition, cannot. It also means that in order to gain access to the new content, participants on the Edencom side have twice the standings grind ahead of them than people who did not participate at all.

In other words, we were punished by CCP for not winning a war we were scripted by CCP to lose. That’s kind of like you’d run a professional wrestling league and then refused to pay the salaries of the performers you have picked to play the prizefighters who lose, on account of them not winning and thus “not deserving it”.

As the situation stands now, there are no good alternatives to the standings-locked gates for moving around the region. You can get in to some systems: there are wormholes and the mechanics of where they spawn are being discovered, but there are no guaranteed wormholes all of the systems. (CCP: if you think there is, you need to send a dev to talk to me in private; I think there possibly is an intended mechanic for that but if I am correct on my guess then that one bugs. As a reminder, I was the EDI Oracle, and trust me I am sciencing the hell out of this one too.). There are supposed to be yeet filaments in, but so far no one’s reported them dropping in significant quantities, and they seem to drop exclusively in Pochven - where only some people can roam to farm. Even if you could get them, those filaments will take you to a random system of a particular kind out of the 27, from wherein you cannot move to your target system without standings for gates. In addition, farming triglavians for the filaments would mean you will tank your trig standing further and be less likely to be able to use the damned gates in the near future.

The one-sided inability to use gates means the region is pretty useless for anyone without the required standings. You cannot roam it for pvp or for simply to explore it. You cannot really raid it either, as most locals can take gates and will just leave. You cannot get people in to defend your structures unless they are in one of the systems that have a lucky wormhole. We have lost and we most likely will lose timers to people who can roam and can bring in people as they like, while we cannot gain entry to defend with more than people who have been willing to sit in one system with nothing to do since release.

Don’t get me wrong. We did not bring anything we cannot afford to lose to systems where we did not even know for sure that they won’t simply get nuked by CCP at downtime. I don’t mind losing our stuff. But I do mind the end result of Chapter 3 to be a region where some participants can roam freely and others are not, while nothing resembling similar benefits are given to people also who put in hundreds of hours and tons of effort into providing for the event the losing side.

Also don’t get me wrong: none of this is the fault of the Triglavian kybernaut players. They also participated and they fought well and they put in the effort, and I don’t grudge them using any edge they have on the new region against other people. I do not think it is a bad thing that they, as participants in Chapter 3, get a kind of a sneak peak into the new content over people who did not participate at all (I just think all participants should have gotten the same). I feel bad for those of them who organized things or played logi more than the mindless grind of shooting edencom NPCs and thus don’t have the standings to enjoy the content, either. (Though at least they are still better off for starting the grind for them than non-participants.)

No, this is solely the fault of CCP. They marketed the event as including two sides. While their communications through-out made it clear the Triglavian totality was coming no matter what, it did not make it clear not all participants could not be part of the next stage in some shape or form.

I was prepared to play the losing side. I was not prepared to not be included in the play at all.

PS: Fixing this does not need hours of development effort, it would be as easy as this:

“We realize now our design left half of the participants in Chapter 3 out of the new content. We regret that and wish to apologize to the players who put in the effort but were left out of the content. While we are exploring whether we can deploy new content to fix this sometime in the future, as an immediate measure we have adjusted gates in Pochven to also react to positive Edencom standings. This represents Edencom recently having discovered a way to hack the gates, and doing it for their trusted capsuleers.”

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giphy

I can taste the salt

And for reference, i was on the side of EDENCOM for all of chapter 3 so i don’t have the trig standings to even dock at an NPC station there :stuck_out_tongue:

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A slightly more intensive option would be to make the Werposts destructible (with respawn timers) and make the gates hackable with hacking modules. You could also flip this with Triglavian players, they can’t use regular gates normally but they can hack them to gain access.

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Yea, there’d be multiple ways to do this. I was trying to invent one that can be implemented now to go in at next DT, because the longer this situation goes on, the less it will matter, as when time goes by the initial period of exploration of the unknown and settling in will pass, and the main ‘reward’ will thus be over.

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I was in the exact same place as you are when Phase 3 hit, Else. Invasions were flipped on their head and the content that I was doing regularly was simply plucked out of the game.

There are many people responsible for this. CCP for designing this so poorly with an understaffed team while introducing an Horde vs Alliance mechanic to the game while at the same time showing clear bias towards one group over the other. The Kybernauts, for straight on from day one making this event all about wrecking as much crap in the game while laughing at it as people tried to stop them, all the while having CCP pat their backs as they spread this toxicity. And of course, EDI and indirectly ARC (who had to create EDI as we didn’t had the infrastructure to place ourselves as the spearhead of EDENCOM) for falling prey to CCP’s trap and letting this horrible and abusive event to not only continue, but drag on for months despite everyone complaining it was a thankless unrewarding grind, despite knowing full well things were better at Phase 2, hoping that eventually things would get better and didn’t.

This event was crap and I stopped participating in it months ago instead having to wait for things to genuinly get better to return to what I was doing in Phase 2 even if in a diminished state. And now that Phase 3 rolled out without a Phase 4 or anything in sight, we’re back where were at the end of Phase 2, only with our content being literally taken from us and given to the side that tried the hardest to runing things for everyone not on their team.

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I ask that this thread not be used to bash Chapter 3 or any participants in it. As I said in my post, I do most emphatically not believe that players on either side are to be blamed. Hating on someone for picking the “wrong” side in a professional wrestling match is not the point here.

If you want to raise issues with Ch1-3 content itself or with toxicity of players (and gods know there’s always some assholes on any side of anything in EVE), this is not the place, but there’s a lot of room on the forums for that too.

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I don’t mince words and I say it as I see it. We all are burden to the blame because not one of us had the courage to put our foot down and say “Enough!” until the smoke settled.

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You don’t need access to the entire region, thats the thing, any content you actually want to see exists in nay of the systems, you can already witness the navy shooting the trigs or drones shooting the trigs or the trig NPC’s shooting the other trig NPC’s, none of that even requires standings or to even leave the system, most of the systems look pretty boring and devoid of any reason to even really “need” to have access

If only there was some kind of service that allowed one to exchange things, i don’t know as a wild idea maybe ISK, for items, its a pipe dream i know but maybe one day there will be a way for players to actually trade items with each other

I mean, i don’t feel punished in the least, i’ve already ventured in to multiple t-space systems without any issue

Imagine not being able to see through marketing BS in 2020, were you not around for the glorious time marketing thought it would be fun to show lasers on a raven? :stuck_out_tongue:

People were genuinely thinking this was going to end differently to how it did?

Cypherous are you a trig alt?

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Nope, my alt has been in fleet with us and spent most of his time as a living pair of eyes scouting the gate in to the invasion system

Cypherous is just not good enough to see the issue and is ignorant to the issues that CCP created.

It’s not even just that Edencom is left out of most of the rewards, this entire C4 start is also a slap in the face of Edencom because any EdencomMV and Fortress are completely pointless now in terms of consequences for Trig Supporters. Since they can be best friends with both sides, Edencom MV and Fortresses are meaningless.

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Cypherous claims to be edencom, but its been obvious for a while he’s just a troll.

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I was reading that…:joy: Regardless, I’m sorry that EC aligned players are having a really difficult time experiencing the new content. From a Lore standpoint, it makes sense, but from a gameplay out of character view, it’s not ok to spend months fighting only to not get to explore the new stuff a bit.

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Exactly.

From a lore standpoint, CONCORD should’ve just nuked every protrig in every highsec system, too, but that would’ve made a pretty boring event :joy:

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Just my 2 cents:

And they did this with standings :clap:

About “choose your side”/standing:

I am proud I fought for EDENCOM trying to save Niarja but I wasn’t hyped about Trig stuff in general or participation. Seems I did right choice. Mainly I was trying to save my industry assets all the time from Trigs.

Remember that New Player Experience has “the same” problem. They can’t access this standing based content. Maybe it will die as Resource Wars did. It’d be hilarious. As hilarious as EDENCOM ships which are not used by anyone. It’s just new 27 WH systems. Shame so many people (developers and players) put so many (wasted?) time into this for a few.

I bet half of the people who helped Trigs make Pochven possible are not interested in new content. Maybe curious but not interested enough to live there.

@Elsebeth_Rhiannon I salute you and I can understand how you feel after these 4 months. You did very good job.

o7

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Well said.

I bailed out of the grind after someone pointed out how ‘bitter’ I was in Discord. They were right and it took me by surprise to realize it. I was so pissed off that CCP allowed 3 months to go by without addressing the disparaging losses to Caldari systems. It seemed planned, I mean how could it be so unbalanced and obvious without any change by the designers?

In hindsight I did the right thing in bailing. I saved my health and sanity. And yet even now I am locked out of this new content due to my 4.5 standings with EDI/Trigs. At this point I no longer even care. I have lost faith in CCP to implement anything properly.

Elsebeth, I hope you find yourself eventually rewarded somehow for the effort you put into the invasions. You gave alot to the people who chose the ‘wrong’ side.

o7

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From a Lore standpoint, having in mind Trigs “proving” concept, it would be the right thing for them to let the “enemy” in to continue “proving”.

Put a standing limited gate only for the system where the Convocation Outside the Struggle would reside.

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Yes. Making the new, interesting content inaccessable for the Edencom side is a very bad decision.
I mean… Gates locked to standings was never a thing, right ?!
Why wouldn’t the Empires use stuff like that? Only being able to Enter Jita with +7 Caldari standing seems probably like a bad idea for the game right?

On top of that: Trig supporters will now gain positive Edencom standing as well, what the hell is that? The people that killed millions of Edencom soldiers will now suddenly be +10 to EC, just because they killed some Droneboats? <_<
where is the logic in all of this?

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You chose to fight for Edencom and wonder why the Triglavians hate you?

Also, Theoretically, say Eden com won every fight against the Triglavians, then no systems would be taken be Triglov correct? So in theory the invasion could have been repelled, or am I missing something here?

Are there new trig systems that were never part of k space?

tl;dr you chose the wrong side, lost, and are complaining about your decisions/failures.

You have played this game since inception…then you should know already,

THIS IS EVE.

We all know the Trig invasion was never going to be repelled.