The Hypocrisy Of The 'I Hate PvP' Miners

Communications Center General Discussion
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Well there is also the concept of PK [Player Killer] which is another term used for it. Although Gank is used in some of the MMO-Tournament games. To designate when multiple players jump another opposing player. Not totally related to something called “Jungle”/“Assassin” depending on variants of games over the years.

EVE terms are kind of morphed terms, that sometimes do not mesh with the wider gaming community terms. So I agree the original term of ganking…is a group attack or ambush. Especially at a critical moment. Where as EVE players have distorted the term a few different ways.

So in thought…small roaming gangs are always considered to be ganking.

But the highsec suicide “ganker” is more akin to the less liked PK [Player Killer] and there is a variant of this behavior we call “Griefer or Griefer Ganker” who is being deliberately harassing/toxic all the anti-societal behaviors to drive someone out of the game.

I can stand ganking and PK activities. [Although Highsec PK is a bit troublesome to counter in EVE due to how the mechanics always favor the aggressor, and there isn’t currently a system that allows us to counter attack or preventatively bounce them from time to time.] Griefers are a bit lower on the totem pole than even gate campers. [At least gate campers you can figure out their schedules of operations]

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Nope, the odds are massively skewed the other way - unless you choose to make it easy for them. Most HS gankers run a cost benefit analysis, if the cost to them outweighs the potential rewards, they’ll leave you alone 95% of the time, the other 5% is the prize for doing something stupid, annoying the wrong person or just happen to be in the wrong place at the right time.

When the shooting starts, it’s already too late - prevention happens much earlier, through the choices a potential target makes before undocking.

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No…I want people to grasp that EVE is ships and guns. It is mayhem and it is supposed to be mayhem. Its not a nice fluffy Teletubbie universe where the goal is to ‘chill out’ in space while watching Netflix. Its a dystopian nightmare survival game.

Half the fun of EVE is the constant threat. Sometimes I transport stuff just for the thrill of making it. I take on ships using part of the station structure to prevent the enemy scramming me. I actively go looking for trouble.

Making EVE ‘safer’ is what will not bode well. Perhaps in the short term it might gain a few more people. But without an ever present threat those people will get bored. My point for several years is that it is NOT ‘non-consensual PvP’ that is the biggest cause of people leaving…it is plain simple boredom. And you don’t keep people by making the game more boring.

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And that’s all your opinion flower.

Take a breath and calm down a touch you sound erratic.

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I think I’m just going to start calling ganking “terrorism” and all who perpetrate it “terrorists”.

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That would suggest the goal of the gankers/terrorists is to scare players through terrorism.

While this may be true for some, I would guess most of the gankers are doing it for other reasons such as loot, the thrill of a hunt, to gain achievement points (playing EVE the ‘right way’) or just as a fun social activity of destroying and looting ships with their buddies.

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They do have a goal though

Force players from the game

Compete between eachother on who can be the biggest tool

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You do have this annoying tendency to argue as if the same didn’t apply to you.

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Nah, most people can see through the roleplay. I hope.

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Yeah. “Terrorism”, lol. I guess it could also be classified as “Piracy” or “High Treason”, too…

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The first time I ganked….I was the one terrified. It is uniquely scary, but exciting too, when you know that a small team depends on you doing your bit. No pressure…lol.

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Not exactly.

And it hurts more when someone has worked very hard to build up to their ship…using the “normal” MMO methodology of build up, suddenly gets wacked by someone they really haven’t interacted with.

Circumstantial Ganking…generally is fine.

But the Roleplay side…ummm…can be taken a few ways. Some people read that the community of EVE are either try hards or have unmentionables stuck up their tailpipes. And that can be offputting.

And Bob help you…if you get the extra-special treatment by a Griefer/Ganker. That will feel like torture and being singled out for the worst experience EVE can throw at you.

I understand people have been playing this game, but a gentleman ganker…who shoots you…then converses politely…and might repay if they figure out you were a new player and explain the way things work. Thats actually kind of rare in EVE. Its the ones who taunts the ganking target…that is a little more confusing and upsetting. When you have been doing long hours to build up things and some rat [That is probably the best word we can we use for such players] blows your hard work to smithereens in a minute.

But yes, its a weird problem at the moment. We don’t want to fully protect, but some counter points need to be defined and allowed.

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But EVE isn’t a “normal” MMO, it’s a different kind of MMO. One that has the “suddenly getting whacked by someone they haven’t really interacted with” that I loved from PvP servers on World of Warcraft but then with full loot, or the full loot dropped on death in a PvP area that RuneScape did only in a single zone of the game, but then near everywhere in the game.

EVE’s economy and gameplay is all built around this possibility of interaction between players.

It has higher stakes, and because of the possibility of PvP has much more multiplayer interaction besides just chatting how high your numbers are today.

I don’t think we need counter points, instead we should help newbies whenever we can to get the right mindset to learn how to survive, instead of being unconstructively defeatist thinking that nothing can be done against gankers, like some people tend to do.

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I gank as a public service in order to help create a better community!

:balance_scale:

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The main problem with the ganking is there isn’t as much of a counter operation.

Currently the major primary counter is the lists. [Although that is too limited a mechanic at this moment.]

Bounties were another option to make a ganker a bit more cautious, that is until the alting allowed people to just alt collect on themselves [kill right included]

Gankers can operate into -10…if they are Highsec they have to stay inside a set band of security. So its not really a great way to enforce “good behavior.” And anyone trying to counter attack a ganker in kind…just gets punished. Hence why I am constantly asking 10+ standing capacity…because I also know aggression would also increase in game as well. Which would mean more incidental PVP and would mean some heat one way or another.

Ideally, most of the “Ideal World” mechanics would be in a situation where you only have one character/ one account. [No boxing or alts.] Bounties on players/gankers would weed out the guys from trying to gank all the time. Make yourself a nuisance get hunted by bounty hunters. Kill rights not being able to be alt claimed to clear ganker characters…nor kill rights artifically increased to make the ganker money on being killed.

There needs to be counter points, especially better ID systems/contact grading. Even probably a place a review on the character info sheet. Its funny we can put notes on the characters for self. But no reviews on the characters themselves. I mean…who wouldn’t want to have a review as the friendliest ganker ever…5 Stars.

I mean yes…you can try to get newbies into the “mindset” but that will morph into you can’t do more stuff without more costs. We hear the “don’t fly what you can’t replace” and that applies to your first ship…time and resource and isk wise if you are doing this tradtionally. You are going to get wacked. Hence my perspective is have two hulls available if you are going to start anything.

Defeatist mentality, is the first hit and people do not get up again. And this is why alot of people fold in EVE especially after the first gank. Now to be honest you have another set of people who also decide to stay out out of spite and “Sunk Cost Fallacy” [EVE is an expensive game to start mind you.] To me EVE isn’t a lifestyle…it is just a very expensive in time and resources game. And I know some people will get mad, but its a reality of its complexity and the complex reactions to that. A Defeatist mentality will break on the first contact. But that doesn’t explain people who constantly get on EVE every day, and decide to go blow up someone who might have been looking around in wonder or trying to get the resources for their first ship, without cause…then edge lord credentials of a bygone era…I guess.

I mean personally IRL Pirates/Privateers have more class than most EVE gankers just saying. Its irony because Defeatist thinking…is in many ways related to Traditionalism. Especially Negative Trait Traditionalism. We don’t want to change it because its “tradition” although in all honesty I wonder do we even have the character name of the first “gank” and if he stayed around after creating this “tradition?”

I personally do not agree with the economy argument either. Because if that was true…why would nullsec with its massive production bonuses etc…even be affected by ganking? I would say its in the reverse, ganking has a net negative effect and also drives some of the alt problems even further. And slows down progression of players who could and should be building up to the next tiers of content and then organically into corps and alliances and into various areas of space. And because of the net negative effect…which also includes psychological effects and retention issues.

And it seems like a very shaky justification, because if you really put your mind to it. I mean if this game was still in alpha/beta mode. Okay they are increases demand for resources…but even a dev would be keeping an eyeball on it, because if the gankers/griefers put too much pressure early on in a games dev cycle, it can kill a game because no one will want to play with “playground bullies” now granted EVE is fairly large space, so the gankers can roam about. And if gankers wanted to…[something I have been aiming to increase their potential to hunt] there is more juicy targets throughout EVE to hit especially the roided out PVE ships. But some people want to seal club…no matter the better options of content targets are on the table. [Shrugs]

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That could be defined a couple different ways. Public Service for whom.

Because one who can sit on some content and choke it off, isn’t always a beneficial perspective.

But if you were weeding out the bots, and input broadcasters, and some miners who think they “own a belt or ice anom or system” and are barking up the tree too much about their petty power in game. I believe you are doing some measure of immune system checkup.

Although there are more powerful entities who could deal with the more problematic issues more directly.

Its the reason, why I handle it with a bit more caution. Although I believe you are valid to use the insurgency mechanics for incidental ganking legality. And I would love to see it striking in other places, so it increases your notority especially going after some of the more off the beaten path “warlord” players dominating weird corners of EVE Onlline.

But you play your own style of game, and other people play the game the way they want to.

Heck I prefer to be an intruder miner, because I understand the risks. Too bad the mining keeps getting screwed with, instead of becoming a higher and higher value target to disrupt especially if you were to understand or your group gets intel on a players routines and operations.

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Myself, of course.

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There’s a certain irony in that all the people posting about how supposedly hard it is to survive being a noob clearly DID survive being a noob. The more people who post about how hard noob survival is…the more counterfactual evidence one has that noob survival isn’t hard !

Every additional longer term player posting ‘think of the children’ and how hard it is to get past 30 days is actually posting yet another proof that their own argument isn’t true.

I love the sheer irony.

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It’s not hard to survive past 30 days. It is hard surviving 30 days of tedium and boredom…

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Thats the easy part…surviving 30 days.

But the monotonous consistency of certain content…thats a whole different problem.

So miners are a bit of an interesting type in EVE, I think of them as more tenacious and long term than most other players. The dopamine high players…tend to crash the fastest from my experience.