Every scammer says he is legitimate and honest.
It is a bit of a shame to see ISD misleading new players in such a blatant way. It would be much better to warn new players of the “Mining Corp Scam”. That is when a corporation pretends to offer excitement and fun gameplay, but all they do is mine all day and offer their new players dismal prices for their ore.
Are you legitimate and honest?
Now those are doing more damage than the New Order has ever done.
I second @NotTheSmartestCookie’s statement
Maybe just rename the thread to something like “Common highsec pitfalls” or something, and then have multiple sections, like a scamming section, ransom, preventing suicide ganks etc?
The issue is really just that a ransom from a RP group is not really scamming.
Ransom implies something has already been taken from the “victim” and will be “returned” if payed.
Scamming is being dishonest; committing fraud; sure Code may not be outright committing fraud but they are somewhat dishonest, from a RP standpoint I have no quarrel with that, that’s just part of what makes them who they are.
You don’t need to explicitly take anything from someone to ransom them.
I can threaten to blow up your ship, unless you pay me a ransom (which is basically what mining permits are). This is how most lowsec pirate ransoms used to go. You scram someone and tell them to pay up. The pirate can honor the ransom or not. It has always been like this. You always run the chance of the pirate both taking your money and your ship.
I don’t argue you have a quarrel with anything. I’m just asking, if objectively looking at mining permits, really justifies a classification of a scam. Personally, I’d say they are much closer to a ransom.
But hej, I’ve done my share of old-school lowsec ransoming. So maybe it’s just me that feels scamming and ransoming are two very different things.
How would you “hold” someone for ransom if you do not have them pointed with Warp Scrambler/Disruptor, which you cannot without triggering Concord response, we are talking about highsec here.
lol refering to the code as Police, yeah right. if thats the case the laws would go like this
go too fast, ticket
go too slow, ticket
drive for too long, ticket
drive the same route to many times, ticket
Yeah, it’s obviously not the same as lowsec ransom, but it’s a ransom nonetheless.
You blow them up just to make them notice you.
Then you send them a mail saying “Hej, I’ll keep killing you unless you pay me X amount of ISK”.
The victim can decide to pay or not, just like the ganker can decide to honor the ransom or not.
Obviously, you can’t scram them in highsec and wait for them to make up their mind if they want to pay or not. But the overall “point” is the same. You threaten to blow them up, unless they pay a fee. So a ransom engineered for highsec, which is why I see it as such and not a scam.
It’s a “protection” racket. You pay in advance, in hopes that the “protection provider” will not decide to blow you up, anyway.
They have “exceptions” like - no AFK mining. Anyone “AFK” is suspected of being a Bot player. If you happen to be watching a movie on a second screen, and don’t respond to some local chat in whatever amount of time the patrolling “Enforcer” decides is too long, they can blow up your ship despite the “permit” listed in your Bio. Waste of money.
Insure your ship, don’t fly what you cant afford to lose - etc.
And as you’ve gotten me googling definitions for “ransom”, it indeed looks like something needs to be explicitly taken.
However, it then just looks like the word “ransom” has just been wrongly used in eve in general. Lowsec ransoms used to work as I described above. So a threat issued to blow up a ship, unless a fee is payed.
The definition of a “scam” seems to imply that something is a fraud. Mining permits are not so much a fraud, but more just a threat to keep blowing up your ship if you don’t comply.
and so do those of us who only look like we might be a scam
It is not ransom it is extortion. Pay or bad things will happen
It is not Law because the actors in this are not certified by anyone other than themselves and their victims
It is RP of a sort. You can choose to play with them or not. Just be aware that there are consequences because they can choose to suicide gank you or not.
Scam also means dishonesty (being dishonest), they claim, if you have a permit, you can mine “legally”, but if then another agent decides that because (s)he didn’t show signs of activity they go ahead and blow up the miner; that makes them dishonest.
Obviously you have not been paying attention to the blog on www.minerbumping.com. There are no cases where an agent was not justified in revoking a permit for one or more violations of the CODE. So if anyone was dishonest in these transactions it was the miner for pretending to agree to the CODE and not following up properly.
Only thing illogical here is suicidal police squads i guess suicide bombers think the same…
You exist because CCP cant be bothered/unable to create actually good game mechanic.
We exist because there is no order without chaos
At least you made me chuckle.