The Orca

They were talking about them a lot, but CCP nefed resistances overall and then nerfed the time that the assault damage control was active. reducing the crying a bit.

And Orca is not very effective with shield reps in my own experience and ganklers will just +1 it.

The issue with taking away Orca’s drones is that then flying one would be about as boring as watching an oil drip in winter…

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Because drone mining is such riveting gameplay…

In any case, no ones talking about taking them away. Just nerfing them in someway.

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A PANIC module for Orcas makes a lot of sense because of reaction time.

Using remote shield boosters makes no sense on Orcas - Catalysts or any other cheap destroyers would tear through the shields and the rest of the armour and hull on a mining barge and destroy it before the Orca pilot or Concord could react. This has been proven time and time again. Anyway, fitting three large remote shield boosters compromises an Orca setup (which ought to centre around being an immovable brick with a quick warp via MWD).

Any Orca pilot claiming they defended a mining barge from gankers is dissonant at worst, anecdotal at best and may have even confused gankers with NPCs.

Orcas do not have an industrial core like the Rorqual to boost drone mining.

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CCP: “It’s a game where the players CREATE everything for other players to use, making up the vast majority of content.”

Also CCP: “Let’s completely break the industry system, especially the acquiring of resources! YEAH!”

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With a concern about “AFK” mining in the Orca and the announcement of specialized holds, CCP could take the Orca and give it smaller Ore/Ice/Gas holds and a non-auto compression module. The equivalent volume should end up being similar to the current hold. This would require pilots to compress and move ore regularly, and it could not be done automatically.

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Actually supporting a fleet of Hulks can be pretty hectic.

i can’t do it therefore it must be impossible

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As far I’m concerned CCP can just:

Remove the drone bay, give a small buff to tank/maneuverability and call a day.

And Yes, I do fly an Orca.

AFK is an obsession here. Can some one state the number of AFK miners and the amount of ore they produce? Something tangible on the table please, not just the harrumphing players who use the the word “we” without justification or consent.

I get the risk vs reward concept - check.

To the extent that AFK Orca mining exists, it arose from other tenants of the game that are “unrealistic” in their “native” state. One of the reasons people get their first Orca is wanting to be as gank-proof as possible. I’m in that group. After being ganked for about the fifth time and losing my investment of time and money, I got an Orca.

Eve is dynamic with innumerable variables and no one can predict out comes because no person knows all the coefficients. Ganking miners is a twisted construct because any group (miners) with that much technology, industrial might and wealth doesn’t sit around defenseless. The personality of miners include hard work, delayed gratification, intelligence, creativity, production and wealth creation. Ganking miners rewards asocial behavior, treachery, non-complexity and immediate gratification for small reward. The intersection of these game arcs is a constant source of tension, not release.

It’s supposedly steeped in Eve lore that miner’s are to be ganked and miners are to take it without defense. You can argue, laugh, say carebears, say tears, say gf (when it’s not a fight) but the outcome has caused tension that sought release elsewhere. Said differently. ganking as constructed caused a vacuum and it is filled partially with Orcas doing +300,000 ehp.

So (most serious) miners run as fast as they can to Orcas. A blitz brought on by the tension described above. It is the natural outcome of an intended but faulty mechanic. And yet, there is a group in Eve complaining that an unspecified number of miners are abusing the Eve lore after they were chased to the periphery by a faulty game construct.

Who wants to spend 2 billion isk for a ship and trundle around ore belts? People who were chased away with an unrealistic construct with nowhere else to go. Individuals in my corp mine many millions m3 each week. That’s what working Orcas do. To the extent anyone “AFK” mines, their impact is miniscule. So quit clutching your hanky feigning credulity that herds of AFK miners in Orcas are roaming Eve ruining the game.

If there is a change implemented in miner game play to pacify the AFK obsessed, it will likely cause more tension that will seek release in places unintended.

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Also irrelevant for the discussion at hand.
The Oca is not supposed to be a mining ship it is a command ship for mining fleets.

Not only irrelevant but also false. A well organized mining fleet will have scouts, logistics and combat ships for protection. (as well as mining ships, support and hauler for acquisition of the ores) .
Matter of fact is that many, many miners in EVE choose to sit at belts, alone and unprepared, easy targets for the most lazy wannabe pirate. Those miner don’t show any trace of all those qualities you boast about, just throw themselves in the most pathetic ISK sink of the entire game: suicide ganking.

A mistake that hopefully will be corrected soon.

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By this thought process combat command ships should not have weapons, because they are supposed to be fleet boosters not combat ships. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander afterall.

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This hasn’t been the case since off-grid links were removed from the game.

When CCP first began planning the removal of off-grid links, there was a lot of concern in the community about the risk to both Rorquals and Orcas having to be on grid and doing not much more than providing links.

CCP specifically then redesigned the mining foreman role to be based around 3 pillars:

  • help the fleet mine more effectively with mining boosts
  • defend the mining fleet
  • contribute to mining itself

So claiming that Orca isn’t supposed to be a mining ship isn’t supported by CCP:

However, as often the case, the initial rebalance was too strong, so some aspects have been nerfed already, and clearly CCP are looking at further adjustments, that might remove the mining capability (no one knows for sure), but the Orca is as much a mining ship currently, as any ship that can mine.

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Fine.

While we are this, lets also take away the Fleet Hangar and Ship Maintenance Bay from the Orca (command ships don’t have that)
The cargo hold should be reduced to 1000m³ and the Ore Hold to 20000m³ to get in line with the mining ships it supports.
EHP? 1.5x the more resilient mining barge should be ok.

And then, we need to decide some minor details, like if the Orca will be made into a tech II ship or the command ships will be demoted to tech I and asking the people ragequiting in droves if we can have their stuff.

And it keeps its mining yield and the price drops dramatically, then fine. The Orca sucks as both a booster and a hauler so I wouldn’t miss the hold. The fleet hanger is a perk, but not necessary. The Ship Maintenance Bay is a joke since it can barely fit any of the most common fleet mining ships.

No, Sir. You already conceded that when proposed for the removal of weapons in combat command ships.

I didn’t catch that we are removing combat role from the command ships. Still wouldn’t bother me if they take away the mining ability. I don’t use any of those other abilities you removed when I am only fleet boosting anyways.

The Orca is a troublesome jack-of-all-trades ship that inevitably sucks at most roles.

AFK Orcas do provide me with hours of quality bumping entertainment…

Had you seen any good bumping clips?

Well, thank for the fair and reasonable response. However let me explain myself:

There is nothing wrong with the mining command ship contribute to mining (as there is not wrong with combat command ships contributing to combat). The issue is when those cause the obsolescence of the ships it is supposed to command.
Now, I’m well aware barges/exhumers are not really obsolete, however CCP need to address the current meta and the reason so many people (supposedly) are taking the Orca for solo mining over the ‘proper’ mining ships.

IMHO, It may be the case that the Orca is failing at the “defend the mining fleet” job, or maybe miner so often can’t be bothered to take the responsibility for their own security.