The Orca

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Ramona_McCandless

Serious question: in what way does it generate a larger yield?

Orca simply has more m3/h.

[Ramona_McCandless]

Yeah but how? Is it all in inherent hull drone bonus?

(Im not in a position to check the numbers just now, which is why I ask )

[Max_Deveron]

@Daichi_Yamato

So before the orca buffs you used what?

i used an orca once i could fly them.

Until then, the normal progression, procurer.

[Daichi_Yamato]

50% role bonus for porpoise and 100% role bonus for orca.

[Lugues_Slive]

@Gerard_Amatin

I expect the Porpoise to indeed be overlooked by CCP as it needs no changes

I am not sure about that. Based on the little bit of information from CCP that I have found, the “putting it in its place” attitude should apply to Porpoises as well. They use the same exact skills as an Orca and fill the same role, although in a lesser capacity. I would expect it to get the same, or similar, nerf that the Orca gets.

But that also assumes that CCP is being transparent with the cause of the Orca nerf.

[Daichi_Yamato]

So you used fleets of orcas as you described before the yield buff?

[Ramona_McCandless]

Ok cool ty

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Ramona_McCandless

Serious question: in what way does it generate a larger yield?

Most people seemed convinced the Orcas afkability is the problem, and the Porpoise is at least as good in that regard with the conceivable exception of high-end timespan in the field.

The Orca has significantly higher mining yield bonuses than the Porpoise.

Porpoise:

Industrial Command Ships bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints, damage and ore mining yield
Role Bonus:
50% bonus to Drone ore mining yield

Orca:

Industrial Command Ships bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints, damage and ore mining yield
Role Bonus:
100% bonus to Drone ore mining yield

Both ships are capable mining fleet support ships and are good at that role.

But the problematic part of the Orca is that it competes with Barges as a solo miner, because of it’s not insignificant yield on top of the high survivability and huge ore hold.

The Porpoise too has good support capabilities, but the yield is much lower.

[Ramona_McCandless]

Yeah your thoughts and mine are on similar paths except I expect CCP to forget the Porpoise even exists because… They’re CCP and have a track record.

[Lugues_Slive]

@Daichi_Yamato

Not only do fewer people afk mine if the yield is lower, but they’d also change what ship they use. Like changing to a mack/rettie.

So way, way, way back in the day, I use to AFK mine in a Mammoth while I worked in college. The timing worked out well for my breaks so that I could run to my room and switch rocks or unload and get 8 hours of mining in. That was a significant yield drop (1/8th a Apoch), but since I was AFK mining it was better than nothing.

Now that Eve is a tad more dangerous, and I am not desperate for isk anymore, I don’t feel the need to AFK mine.

[Ramona_McCandless]

Now Im just wondering how comparable they are with differing storage divided by differing yield.

If all I care about is the ship filling within a particular time, how much difference does it make?

[Max_Deveron]

soon as my characters could fly them, yes.

But back then I usually flew fleets of cats, tengus, proteus, abbadons, Thorax, Ravens, Fleet Stabbers…cause back then i could War Dec…and when they dropped corp…i ganked them…

Cause Im an asshole,
you can be blue to me…work with/for me…die or GTFO…thats the only options I give competitors…

When i care, and right now I do not really care so much…

Been playing Starbase for 2 weeks now, have hardly logged into the launcher let alone any clients…I hear my people are beginning to wonder if Im going to quit EvE before the Xmas deadline i gave them to get their ■■■■ together.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Lugues_Slive

So way, way, way back in the day, I use to AFK mine in a Mammoth while I worked in college.

That’s great for you…but did everyone else?

Lots of people afk mine in an orca now. That’s what indicates a problem. Not niche cases like yourself. I’ve personally seen someone afk mining in a miasmos, but because it’s just one guy here or there it’s not a problem.

Or do people really think that will become the norm if the orca is nerfed?

With regards to the porpoise, people may pick it up instead and we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. But I’m skeptical given it’s lower performance in every area.

[Lugues_Slive]

@Ramona_McCandless

If all I care about is the ship filling within a particular time, how much difference does it make?

Real quick rough numbers;

Orca
Yield - 1485m3/min
Ore Hold Fill Time - 126min
Total Fill Time - 178 min

Porpoise
Yield - 1114m3/min
Ore Hold Fill Time - 45min
Total Fill Time - 50min

[Ramona_McCandless]

only get 50 more minutes in the Orca inc the Fleet Hangar and the Cargo Bay?

(I assume you are using expensive drones for this and are close to the asteroids ?)

[Lugues_Slive]

@Daichi_Yamato

Lots of people afk mine in an orca now

That’s hard to prove, granted “lots” of people may be using an Orca now.

@Daichi_Yamato

With regards to the porpoise, people may pick it up instead and we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. But I’m skeptical given it’s lower performance in every area.

With the AFK argument, its not necessarily about yield. It can also be about max time AFK, which by reducing the yield on the Orca, you will be increasing.

[Lugues_Slive]

Yes to the fill time question.

T2 drones and no travel time included, just back of napkin calcs.

[Ramona_McCandless]

Huh colour me surprised but okay

[Lugues_Slive]

The Porpoise could have a larger ore hold, not sure if the skill bonus is showing up in the simulator.

If not, it would be more like;

Ore Hold Fill Time - 56min
Total Fill Time - 61min

To compare, a tank fit Mack has;

Yield - 864m3/min
Ore Hold Fill Time - 41min

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Lugues_Slive

With the AFK argument, its not necessarily about yield. It can also be about max time AFK, which by reducing the yield on the Orca, you will be increasing.

If we continue reducing the yield all the way to 0, the max time AFK will increase to infinity. I somehow doubt that people with 0 yield will be happy that they can AFK ‘mine’ all day long. Therefore I don’t think ‘max time AFK’ on it’s own is a good factor to measure how useful AFK mining ships are. It is a factor, but of much less importance than the yield itself.

Let’s look at a few statements - please let me know if you don’t agree:

1. We are certain that as the yield approaches 0, the ship becomes less tempting as AFK mining ship.
   With 0 yield being the point that nobody will be interested in mining with the ship, obviously.

2. We are also certain that as the mining yield of the Orcas would be greater than it is today, it becomes more tempting as AFK mining ship.
   The huge ore hold would last long enough that even with twice the yield people could go AFK for long periods of time for twice the ISK per hour.

So what makes you think that if we reduce the yield, the Orca becomes more tempting as AFK mining ship? I would say it’s the opposite: the Orca becomes less tempting as AFK mining ship when the yield goes down.