The design problem is Highsec wardecs, which has lead more and more to proliferation of Ganking, which makes people use less squishy ships…move into procs/skiffs, then go hey ill just get an orca and brick tank that.
Edit: It is why I use them, I can out mine most people where I live with my personal orca fleet…and under full boosts, overheated (if neccesary) they each can get over 800k EHP with lowest resist in the low 80’s.
How do Wardecs lead to ganking?
He’s saying, the changes in wardecs have made pvp in highsec harder, so people have resorted to more ganking to get their opportunities. Where they could previously wardec their competition, now miners sit in war ineligible corps, so have to be ganked instead.
Last time I looked at the rate of ganking, it didn’t really support that, but it’s been a while, so maybe things have changed.
I guess… I read it as him equating being decced and the attacks following as “ganks”, but your reading somewhat makes more sense I guess.
I wrote guess twice but Im too lazy to change it.
Yet not too lazy to write this pointless explaination.
Wierd.
I appreciate that the tank makes them attractive as well. But i doubt you’d still use it like that if the yield was lowered.
Imagine if the yield was halved? Still want to use fleets of orcas? What if all yield bonuses were removed and they went back to normal mining drones?
My point is, there is probably a point where player behaviour adjusts back to barges regardless of the Orcas tank,
can you share your fit please?
He’s probably using a lot of bling, as the ‘max tank’ T2 Orca fits I would comfortably fly ingame are in the 450-550k EHP range.
Anyway, if you’re going to bling your Orca, you better do it well. Behold, 1.6 Million EHP.
coughporpoisecough
I love that ship and how it’s designed.
The Orca is a bit too big and to slow for me when I mine in null. Also much more ISK on grid than a Porpoise.
The Porpoise, with Procurer-level EHP, fast align, decent mining yield (yet far below barge yield), boosts, shield repairs and extensive cargo hold is perfect for me when I want to help other mining ships.
Lets start with a fact.
The lower the yield the longer they can go AFK.
Lowering yields, nerfing asteroids, scarcity are all not the answer.
The original mechanic that controled resrouce gathering is broken on the Orca and the Rorq. It used to be that you could not go AFK for very long because the hold would fill and mining would stop. But the Orca and Rorq route the ore to the huge Ore hold which means you can go AFK for a really long time before the hold fills.
All they ever had to do was fix that mechanic on those two ships, all the other nerfs were fool errands.
Nice fact. But it misses the point.
If you have a yield of 0 you can afk mine forever!
Yet would people do it? Of course not. Reduced yield will discourage people to AFK mine as it pays less per hour for the same effort of setting it up and pays less per hour for the same risk of having your ship in space.
Reduce the yield of the Orca and fewer people will use it to AFK mine.
The entire discussion on AFK mining constantly flip flops between what people would do and what people can do.
On the “can do” side, you can AFK mine in an Orca for a long time (if you have a large enough resource). On that same side, reducing (not removing) the yield would increase the AFK time.
On the “would do” side, its harder to argue. Not everyone AFK mines and not everyone even thinks you can AFK mine. If players are AFK mining, then I doubt they are concerned about efficiency, which means that if you reduce (not remove) the yield AFK miners may very likely still AFK mine.
Did you jump at that and not read the rest?
The core mechanic of mining has always been that the miner needs to move the ore or the hold will fill.
That is what they broke with Orca and Rorq. It has nothing to do with size of asteroids or tank or any of those other excuses.
Simple fix: Give all mining ships a Mining Hold. The size of the hold should be just big enough to hold a few minutes worth of ore at max yield. Route all ore to this new hold. Restore asteroid belts to original.
Lowering the yield would not much matter the way I use them…
If/when there is direct competition, 40 T2 drones can snap up a rock in 10 seconds right now…if you count the time out and pull them…its like short changing the lasers on a barge/exhumer.
you are correct, I have to gank other miners as i can no longer wardec them…
and when i do…they cry.
I tell them to get an orca then…
But then eventually i just gank that as well, and they leave.
You dont even need ehp with its nimbleness.
All this Orca talk and tbh the Porpoise outclasses it in most of the ways people expect it nerfed.
Expect Porpoise to be overlooked by CCP
and here i would agree with you as well,
can currently field 10 fully fitted porps for 1 single orca…at an average of 88k EHP.
60kx10 = 600k M3…about 3 orca loads.
The Porpoise is great, but it does not outclass the Orca in the one problematic part of the Orca: mining yield.
I expect the Porpoise to indeed be overlooked by CCP as it needs no changes.
Serious question: in what way does it generate a larger yield?
Most people seemed convinced the Orcas afkability is the problem, and the Porpoise is at least as good in that regard with the conceivable exception of high-end timespan in the field.
Right, but there’s a reason we don’t see fleets of miasmos afk mining.
Also missing the point.
Not only do fewer people afk mine if the yield is lower, but they’d also change what ship they use. Like changing to a mack/rettie.
So before the orca buffs you used what?
