If by this you mean the reduction of SP, you are incorrect. Faster completion rates to acquire things will significantly impact player retention. This is because there will be a big draw of emotion and psychological attachment to “the next, newest, best thing”. That is the single purpose why Vertical progression systems have been the primary form of development for the industry.
The only way to do that is to make skills mutually exclusive. For example, you can only train caldari tech, and cannot learn armor tech as a shield based race.
Passives would break the games balance rate at that point, but i’d expect you’d like that.
I did not say that, I said there is no propose in it. Look at all the corps out there. Your corp may of found some very rare gem that others have not, but for the general corporations, its all a collection of numbers, ultimately to fill the pocket of someone, or someones.
Not everyone is friends, actually, we are structured in a similar way that eve is. A few high sec systems for three races, and the rest nullsec. Did you forget, im a pvper at heart?
I’d suggest you go do the NPE - It gets you to shoot a few NPC’s in a very unrealistic situation. It gets you to pick up some cargo - Then it tells you you’re done and to dock up - End of NPE.
There is nothing about the horribly designed UI (which has got better over the years but is still really bad). There is nothing about what to train next, there isn’t even a hint, unless you know where to look about the skill tree and how it works.
NB; I didn’t “rush” him through it - I sat in station and answered his questions. Not my fault the NPE is so basic a 3 year old could complete it and still know so little about the game it is scary.,.
IMO anyone who takes more than 10 or 15 minutes to complete the NPE, isn’t going on to play Eve.,. The slowest (and worst) part of the whole NPE is the overly slow and not very helpful voice behind it…
Sorry but i’ve walked a lot of players through their first days in eve over the years. I try to be realistic and keep their expectations down (everyone has heard about how rich some players are and how easy it is to make isk).
I gave him isk - starting out in Eve with nothing is hard enough, trying to make enough for your first ship is very discouraging.
Sorry but it wasn’t anything i said or did that turned him off - It was once we had worked out a skill cue brought the skills and put in the maximum 24 hours worth that he decided it just wasn’t worth the time and effort - I even offered to buy him plex for a month to help speed up training - He declined.,.
having been around the game for 15 years AND spent a lot of time helping new players - I don’t tell them things that will discourage them - I want them to join me in playing Eve, I can’t help it if some just find skill training and low returns for effort a turnoff. We play a niche game that 90% of people laugh at, we love our game and despite what you think, I do my best to encourage new players.
you mean the bit people are getting fed up with and is killing MMOs. Because to keep vertical progression going you have to have perpetual power creep. Which leads to the eternal gear and regear cycle which people burn out on.
Basically you are suggesting hooking people on drugs and taking advantage of addictions.
Of course… given your ethics in taking advantage of newbies I’m not surprised you would advocate such a predatory approach.
It is guaranteed, and its been replicated in so many games the evidence to overwhelming for any sane developer to reject.
Your essentially saying that leveling is worthless, but really, is it? It’s probably (imo it is) the most successful progression system in the industry.
You need to prove they died to VP related content to have a simi-valid position (even if you can prove that, you will still have to prove that will happen to eve).
More to the point, eve has VP in it, and way more then wow and other mmos do. On top of that eve does not have the control mechanics of those games.
Your claim is that “Faster completion rates to acquire things will significantly impact player retention”, is this correct?
My dispute is with the word will, you simply cannot guarantee that this will happen, because there is a chance that it won’t.
To use your own words, which swing both ways and in this case the burden of proof is on you, again.
You need to prove they succeeded due to VP related content to have a semi-valid position (even if you can prove that, you will still have to prove that this will happen to eve).
Edit~ dammit too much of one word and none of the word I meant to use.
We live int he age of instant gratification. Companies are making hundreds of millions a year developing games specifically around these concepts. On top of that we have another 2-3 decades of people implementing these concepts as proof, they in fact significantly impact (improve) retention rates. This is well known by designers.
You can pretty much gaurentee it will improve the game. Lets say there is a 1% or even 10% chance it will fail. What is our contingency view on that?
Lets say we start out and test this on Tech 1 ships, up to (and including) cruiser (maybe beyong that), and some of the primary modular stuff with it (boosters, weapons, etc).
Would those changes really be negative for the game?
In theory something like this could be tested and easily reversed depending on how ccp makes the change. They could also do something like “your first 6 months gains some ridiculous (x15-x25) amount of research speed”. That would encourage subscription rates, prevent a massive amount of work to validate the position, while actively testing it.
As a software developer, we all know that idea’s are easy, what really makes or breaks them is the implementation of those idea’s.
Exactly my point, you can’t say will when this is a factor; the right phrasing would be may, highly probable, almost certain.
What has to be taken into account is that the traditional demographic of Eve is not the same as that of the popular market. Eve has always catered to a select, and often older market; where do Eve’s current traditional demographic go when CCP introduce stuff that appeals to the popular demographic but not them?
You are always going to meet stiff resistance with your proposals, because they smack of the popular market, and Eve is one of the bastions left to us that doesn’t really cater to that market.
Yes, I can say it.
I guarantee that the retention rates will improve with this change.
See? Right there.
But that is not the point, the issue is that if you implement it in a way that has no real impact on the game if it fails, you lose nothing by some development resources, and those can be minimized with proper plans and implementation.
So, what is there to lose?
Oh stop talking to me about you egotistical baddies that want to 1 shot noobs all day. You know what, All of you could quit, and i would not care. Do you know why? Because ccp claims 16,000 people a week are waiting. In a month we could drop and repopulate the entire game, and still come out massively a head.
You are trying to say
" we have 14,000 active players, but we should not make a change that could lose us up to 14,000 even though there is 16,000 waiting to come in next week.
Do you understand the stupidity in this statement?
Reducing and removing some of the complexity != to removing all of it.
If they were smart they’d make it so you had to warp between targets. The problem with ED is that the game requires people to travel large area’s of space. Its like making players in eve move around at non-warp speeds. The solution to all there problems is shifting that movement system to one like eve, and focusing the content around objects, like eve does. Yes the big space area feels like space and very unique, but good luck ever finding people.
I have an Anaconda with a 47 LY jump range, this is not a problem.
A Diamondback Explorer can be fitted to go 30 LY+ on a low budget.
Im not sure why you think travelling is an issue or something you actually need to do much. A system with 3+ stations or outposts has plenty to be at, and if its combat you need, Conflict Zones and Resource Sites are in lots of systems.
Sorry Im not following. How are they not doing this already?
Edit: Unless you mean persistent Player created content in space. This is one thing that I would agree with, if thats what you are saying, but their plans for Fleet Carriers seem part of the way to addressing this directly.
Elite tends to promote PwP (Playing with Players) rather than PvP or PvE as its multiplayer aspect. Its easy to find people, you just join a Private group. Hutton Truckers PG has over 6000 members and Fleet has even more.
I think Mobius is still around too.
Edit: Though if its players in the wild you want to find, theres plenty of them around hubs like Lave, Epsilon Eridani and the capital systems.
Stop generalising people into an insulting generic group.
I don’t shoot people at all, let alone new players. That’s not how I play.
I can think of a few others that play in a similar fashion that also disagree with the things you suggest here and elsewhere.
Not because we’re mythical egotistical bad guys preying on new players, but because your suggestions are made without any substance and there is no thought behind how they may be applied to Eve, and any negatives consequences of doing so.
It requires to much time, which makes the space between targets to large. That prevents interaction, effectively turning a mmo-sandbox into a single player game.
That was the point i was making.
Eve’s movement is focused around objects. Stations, gates, Planets they all have a point of potential interaction from players. This is what is lose in ED.
Wait, Who said i am require to pay for everything in a corp because i am well off in isk? Btw, I was the primary contributor for corp projects, in fact, i donated probably 80% of all isk that went into corp assets.
I am not a scammer because I wont carry you, or anyone else with all my isk. It’s my isk, not yours and you have no right to demand me to spend it in specific ways.
As a “kind of” veteran player, I would be reall pissed about alle the time I spent in skills and time if its given away “for free” (<- easier faster whatever) now.
And well I do not need all ships or all skills, I just need some. So just leave it as it is.
EVE is about specialization and about choosing the right skills / ship / modules / whatever for the job.
