The Triglavian Invasion needs a better sense of scale

(Apologies if this post is a little disjointed or rambling; I’ve organized and streamlined it as best I can ATM.)

I want to start by saying that I think the Triglavian Invasion is a great idea. It brings new content, new mechanics, and shakes up the game from a mechanical and a lore perspective. With that being said, the Triglavian victories in Vale and Sakenta made me realize that one thing the Invasion doesn’t have is a proper sense of scale.

Unlike Raravoss, which only has barren, gas, and ice planets, Sakenta and Vale both contain planets with habitable biospheres; the former has two terrestrial (Earthlike) planets, and the latter has three terrestrial planets and an ocean world. With the darkening of the systems’ suns by the Triglavians, those worlds are going to be undergoing mass-extinction events that will likely render them lifeless rocks.

While the grim tragedy of New Eden means that Human life is considered cheap, habitable planets are another matter entirely. The Caldari homeworld is only marginally habitable thanks to the incomplete terraforming it had undergone when the EVE Gate collapsed, and the collapse of the Mannar homeworld’s ecosystem (look at the section titled “Doa dea Kabar”) is very similar to what the planets in Sakenta and Vale will soon be experiencing.

I realize that the core conceit of EvE is “the players make the universe”, and I’m not proposing that CCP change that, but I do think that they need to consider just what the stakes of this conflict mean for the in-universe population. This conflict may be shaped by the players, but it shouldn’t feel like the Empires are just letting independent capsuleers handle the lion’s share of the work.

At this point, all four Empires should be on a total war footing and deploying everything they have to fight the Triglavians in systems with life-bearing worlds, especially since the Caldari know just how precious habitable worlds are and the Mannar themselves are one of the most hawkish political factions in the Gallente Federation.

I’m not going to suggest that CCP creates sites with enormous battlefleets of Empire capital ships slugging it out with the Triglavians, but they could certainly do a better job of conveying how Big and Important these battles are. Our participation in this conflict shouldn’t feel like “We’re hiring you to blow ■■■■ up, business as usual.”, it should feel like “We’re calling up everyone with a ship and offering premium rates because holy frak this situation is so bad it’s not even funny.”

My ideas on how this might be done without requiring a large amount of dev time would be things like having ISD members in control of NPCs talking in local, making it clear that there are massive battles going on throughout the system between Empire and Triglavian forces, even if we may not be on-grid to see them happen for ourselves.

Tying in with my previous suggestion is something that would only happen in systems with active conflicts, but would convey how dire the situation is in a way that I think players would love. Every so often, an extremely bright flash in the local Empire’s color (gold for Amarr, blue for Caldari, green for Gallente, orange for Minmatar) would originate from somewhere off-grid, radiating for about ten seconds before fading.

It wasn’t a nova, another Caroline’s Star event, or a gigantic bomb; it was an Iapetan Titan firing its doomsday weapon several light-minutes away.

Because seriously, there are no mentions of them in the latest News Roundup, and if a cataclysm affecting multiple planetary biospheres doesn’t warrant sortieing them then what the hell does?

If anyone else has ideas on how this conflict could be made to feel bigger, I’d love to hear them!

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This game is notoriously half-baked in every aspect. There’s a lot of rich little thises and that’s that could be done, but are not. Likely due to lack of staffing and legacy code.

We’re lucky that players get to pick sides this time, unlike incursions.

Best to let sleeping dogs lie.

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What CCP has set in motion for this event is done. Nothing any player does (short of exploiting a massive overlooked loophole) will alter it. If you’re looking for game mechanic changes on how the Invasion works, leave that thought at the door because CCP doesn’t and won’t care.

So that leaves us with the only remaining part, subjective interpretation. If you feel like this isn’t “big enough”, there’s nothing anyone else will be able to say, since it’s just subjective interpretation at that point.

:red_circle:

Which is half-baked as well because, while everyone who chooses Edencom has actual consequences to suffer from, everyone who chooses Triglavians has literally not a single consequence and only benefits.

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They dont care when its Sancho’s bioinvasion and theft, they arent going to start caring now.

Maybe all of you are right. Maybe CCP really doesn’t feel like making their universe react to this event in a plausible manner; or at least a manner that I believe to be plausible.

But I love this game, I want it to be even better than it already is, so I’ll just keep pushing them to do better until I think there’s nothing more they can do or finally stop playing. They’ve improved over the past few months, so I have hope they can continue to do so.

You do realize that EDENCOM is winning right?

That’s because Bears Farm Trigs, Pirates Kill Bears and Kill EDENCOM Once to get Neutral.

The result is inevitable :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Yeah, right. And we all know the victory conditions for both sides :smiley:
For what I know ECom lost 4 times already

:red_circle: What has that to do with consequences? Every lost system means another null sec system in the high sec cluster. Every minor victory means another lingering, remaining and unmarked invasion system in the high sec cluster. Every victory means no change at all for Edencom.

Every victory for Trig shits means another player farming place for trigs and other people. Every minor loss means another remaining invasion in the high sec cluster. Every lost contest against Edencom results in not a single consequence for them. Every taken system results in no consequences for them either.

Again: Care to explain what consequences have to do with Edencom “winning”?

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Yeah. Except for rats camping gates and gateguns instapopping capsules. Good try

:red_circle: Where do sentries instapop capsules? In Fortress systems?

Trigs kill pods and camp gates as well, so that’s not a consequence exclusive to trig shits. Not to mention that trigs do that anywhere they have or used to have an invasion. Try again.

So now we are moving goalposts. Gooootcha

:red_circle: I am not sure where you see moving goalposts. Getting your pod killed is hardly a consequence compared to losing a system to null security. Especially if both sides do the same killing thing. But sure, if you want to see moving goalpost, be my guest. Just goes to show how spoiled trigs are.

And I don’t see any issue with system going nullsec, so that’s makes two of us

He thinks they will be simultaneously empty and happy hunting grounds.

The dots have gone to his head

You do realize that the balance for the rats is off which leads to (especially Amarr Edencom) winning by default too fast.

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Alright, let’s do some maths here:

EDENCOM gets ISK and DED LP with combined worth somewhere around 5m isk per site. They also get Trig salvage AND Triglavian Survey Data, both in total usually valued at 30-50m per site which CAN BE SOLO’d btw.

Triglavian players get about 1-2m isk payout per site (no LP), and a chance for T2 salvage that might range from 500k (garbage loot rolls) to about 10-15m (intact armor plate drop).

Yeah, clearly the Triglavians are favored here /s

:red_circle: That has nothing to do with consequences either.

Not to mention that the ISK reward is at the best level only 4.5M and you get less if you solo. Most of the time you need more than the optimal number of people to actually accomplish something, which pushes your income down to as little as 90k ISK per site, which is less than the money spent for some ammo types. The LP is minuscule. After 3 invasions and about 30 hours of invested time, I am up at 17k LP. I also don’t get your 30-50M value for Trig salvage and loot. I have not salvaged full sites yet, but the wrecks which I did salvage got me at most 2-3M in total. And that meant sitting in an finished site (not everyone brings alts) while every where around you mayhem raged.

Clearly, Edencom is favored here. /s And again, this has nothing to do with consequences. If my previous posts were goal post movers, what is your talk about site rewards? A goal post transmutator?


Very empty indeed. And lets wait for systems that are situated in actually useful areas.

Why would they put Trig New Player starting systems in important places?