The usefulness of friendly discussion on these forums

Communications Center General Discussion
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So I’m an old guy. I love Eve Online because it offers such a great combination of complexity, strategy, camaraderie and doesn’t generally require incredible reflexes to succeed…just heaps of research, hard lessons, patience and, in the end, exhilaration like no other game. Part of this, of course, is the ruthlessness, the gankers, the intrigue and the general mayhem that’s a daily fact of life in New Eden.

All of this I love and would not have it any other way.

However…however… Despite having played the game on and off since around 2009 (2015 with this capsuleer) I have only very recently engaged with the forum here…and I’m really dismayed by some of the attitudes on display.

This is “real World” here guys, not in-game stuff. I’m completely used to the kind of bilious invective that has turned most social media into sewers, displaying the very worst humanity has to offer but, surely, here is the place for us to show our enthusiasm for the game, discuss things with genuine engagement and show some respect, at least for the fact that all of us here are massive enthusiasts for Eve Online!

Please remember that your opinions only gain currency in the real World if they engage rather than repulse their recipients. Please be the Pirate, the vagabond, the Shyster, the gangster, the conman you want to be in New Eden; just please try to be part of a real-World fan community when we’re talking on here.

As I said, I’m an old guy. I hope my plea here doesn’t prove to be just another example of me being “old-fashioned”.

Fly safe…and never fly what you cannot afford to lose. o7

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I feel for you, I feel for myself. And although time sometimes works in loops, it should be remembered that we are all just people, with hope, with motivation, with friends.

EVE is, of course, a game where you have a lot of possibilities, and as they said back then, “manipulate the masses”. But what if you manipulate the source By manipulating the source, you manipulate the masses as well. In secret, without much effort.

You just have to find the right frequency, the right key to manipulate a key figure, then you change the whole game.

I did that and I’m sorry. I’m also sorry that I sold one of my characters back then. Yeah, I’m coming out of it. May CCP’s banhammer going to hit me.

If so, I still have the possibility in my imagination to follow the story, to create my own content that I enjoy.

But nothing beside I have tried everything to convince this key figure that his way is the wrong way.

But who likes to be told something, especially if the person believes in it.

So long. Let’s raise a Quafe, on friendship, Fly Safe…

To complete come out… here some Work in Progress Video, for that particular Character…

you can stop after 1 minute

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Wow! Thanks for that …what a great, deep, observation!

To be honest it had never occurred to me that manipulating people outside the game could - or would - be used as an in-game tactic. Naivety #101 I guess…

To me, the imagination, the alter-ego, is everything with Eve Online. It allows us all to explore - “become” for a while - the best, or worst imaginable versions of whatever our subconscious selves actually are…but also I’ve formed genuine friendships from it. Having been a gamer since the days of the Commodore 64 - when the nearest you got to mmorpg was phoning your mate to give them the answer to a puzzle in Eureka or(a bit later) Myst - I love the fact that Eve Online is populated by so many fellow nerds.

The clip was interesting…not quite sure where you 're going with that but I love the concept!

Let New Eden be the same brutal, unforgiving, surprising place it has always been…but thank you for proving that, on these forums at least, we can just be enthusiastic, opinionated fans.

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The discourse of conversation here is routinely derailed by the same usual suspects. They’ve been given unbridled reign to crap on every distinct idea that is not their own.

Its very sad to see the state of community affairs in this game. Community used to matter a lot here.

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I’m sure it still does…I just reckon there’s a lot of ppl out there like me that haven’t really engaged that much. My daughter - who is a huge gamer - seemed utterly unsurprised that this forum suffered from the same kind of “keyboard warrior” abuse that other forums get.
I dunno…somehow I thought maybe Eve Online devotees might be a little above that kind of thing…

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…didn’t take long, did it?

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The longer someone spends on the forum, the more and more, the same old arguments and discussion points come up.

Naturally, after trying to engage civilly time and time again, and being dismissed, the patience wears a bit thin. This is on all sides of discussions.

So often, when the same discussions come up, it goes off the rails fast, because it’s all been seen before.

There are some people here who are really engaged, even though they don’t share the same view.

So I think it isn’t so much that people aren’t willing to discuss things with a level head, but a lot of the tone depends on the attitude of the original post, and like r/jokes, how many times the same joke thread has been posted before.

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Ok…I get that…I’ve only really just started to engage here…i don’t expect anyone to share the same view on anything, other than the ability to be at least civil to each-other. Is it really too much to ask that the vitriol be saved for the open-slather carnage of New Eden itself?
I hope to goodness ppl "get’ the distinction!!
Also, respect and some degree of politeness always lends more credence to the point you’re trying to make I reckon. As soon as someone starts with the insults, any point they might have been trying to make gets buried beneath the invective. Now that might be the point perhaps, if someone just wants to be a troll…but here, of all places? A fan forum? Isn’t this supposed to be populated by ppl who love Eve Online?

You’d have to be pretty desperate to choose to troll here, when twitter etc offer such fertile pastures?

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‘Myst: the complete collection’ is available on Steam. I found that a pleasant bit of nostalgia, perhaps you might also.

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I totally agree, and it’s always good to have new people join that can see all sides of arguments/discussions and accept others views without the mud slinging.

Don’t be surprised though as you spend time here that some people only come to shout at CCP or the community in general. They aren’t really interested in discussion and certainly not anything other than the perspective that their own view is 100% correct.

Those are often the threads that quickly go sideways, as they are really intended as a monologue, not a dialogue. They also pollute the other discussions that occur.

It’s one of the things that just has to be accepted. People are passionate about this game and passion is mixed with all types of emotions.

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Passion is great! I love it!..and, certainly, when I was a little less wrinkled by father-time than my in-game avatar suggests, I was often somewhat less than diplomatic. But there is a massive difference between passion - even crudely expressed - and trolling, abuse and just, plain-old rudeness.

Having said that, it is really encouraging that ppl like you are out here in the ether on this forum…and I will stick around now I know there are at least some of us that appreciate enthusiastic, engaged, respectful discussion! o7

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Great opening post, and good comments. Being an old guy myself, and not much of a game designer, I don’t post often, but I too like good discussions and would like to see the rest laid aside.

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Thank you!

Honestly, I’m very encouraged that ppl like you have replied to this post…it’s just great to know that there are others out there who get the difference between the carnage of New Eden and the sharing of enthusiasm and ideas for a game we all love.

I’m sure we’ll probably kill - and pod - each other with relish in the game at some stage…but it’s just sooo good to have a civilised discussion about the game we love in the real world.

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A nice refreshing post, the one attempt at trolling from a usual suspect didn’t really generate into anything which is nice. I’ve used the forums a bit but I’ve become more and more dismayed by some of the replies that people receive and the sheer amount of Vitriol that spouts from some people. It make you not really want to bother engaging on the forums anymore.

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Thank you!
Well, I think there are obviously enough of us out there to make it worth sticking around. I must admit I avoided posting on the forums here for a long time, only because so many games forums always seem to be just sewers…but no-one ends up playing Eve Online without having something beyond a casual interest and being, frankly, a bit of a nerd.
And now I feel so encouraged - as I hope you are - that we can carry on destroying the bejeezus out of each-other in New Eden, whilst also enjoying a great discussion on the forums.

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Sorry I’m just getting around to writing, it’s my birthday today, and I thought I’d do something for the best (although my best will probably never be good enough for this game, but at least I did something). And finally practice makes perfect - and that’s why I just wanted to show that there are plenty of people out there who are motivated to do something, and that’s the spirit we should encourage, because after all we are here to learn.

Isn’t that what connects us, this insatiable thirst, - the ability to apply knowledge?

In the end we decide which knowledge we want to acquire and especially in which direction we want to develop.

Back then, in 2008 (whether this may sound bossy or not), I had already recognized the possibility of having an inspiring effect on others, which of course can also be used for the negative, even if the ambition behind it was good.

Ultimately, this only sets one domino on another and leads to a chain reaction that is very difficult to stop. I hope we can start to “de-escalate” the partly necessary development (without trolling around), also from CCP developers.

We must not forget that also employees of CCP are pursuing their own goals and thus also represent their own interests and follow their own paths.

We will see (without wanting to see any disagreement here) to what extent the current situation is helpful for the game, or perhaps even leads us back to the roots of the game.

Because in the end, the common vision of Sci-Fi and its possibilities, so that we should not exclude anybody, unites us in the idea guidance, etc…

Creativity is just a measure of the point of view, and everything is in motion.

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The problem really isn’t those who attempt to derail.
It’s those who jump in on it.

If there weren’t people who jump on it …
… there wasn’t any derailing going on.

Like … from your perspective, the smartest thing to do
would simply not reacting to those you believe attempt to derail.

That’s not what’s happening, though.

A good Case in Point: Every thread about suicide ganking,
wars, bumping, etc., no matter which “side” created it.

Now you could even accuse me of attempting derailing it,
just because I’ve brought those up, despite them being valid points.

Hell, my … uh … “alter ego” keeps wanting moderation that actually enforces some laws of intellectuallity or whatever he’d call it. As long as that doesn’t exist, or as long as we can’t have a seperate subforum for intelligent discussion, I keep existing.

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No, I actually doubt that. People don’t decide such things. They simply react to what’s written. For most there really is no decision involved. Either it “triggers” them into reacting or it doesn’t. People don’t sit there thinking “should i participate in this discussion?”. No, they just start writing, or don’t.

Oh and Happy Birthday! :smiley: :kissing_closed_eyes: :partying_face: :partying_face: :partying_face:

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I assure you, you cannot possibly be worse than me at this game , at various times. My history in this game has - like so many others - been characterised thus:

  1. Mining…gave that up very early on through boredom.

  2. Solo PVE…great…to start with…then level IV…Wow!..then…ok, what’s next.

  3. Exploration. Great! Mostly ok, lot’s of spamming Dscan, occasional deaths, but learned heaps about pirating!!!

  4. Pirating!!! Loads of waiting around, setting ambushes, getting killed, getting into distracted and then realising that you’ve missed the opportunity…(very like fishing actually)

  5. Lo-sec gangs/fleets…where I am now…

Actually your posts (and, shame on me, I did look you up on zkillboard) suggest your breadth of experience in the game. So I am both honoured - in game terms - and very grateful (in real-world terms) that you have contributed in such an erudite and - as you kind-of touched on - inspirational way.

I’m not sure that any new developments from CCP are necessarily good or bad at their inception. I think they are as much in the dark as we are as to how things may develop. All I know is that the best way for all of us to express our opinions candidly is by being able to come here, on the forums, and have an honest, respectful and, wherever possible, friendly discussion of how our game evolves…because, ultimately, it either belongs to us, or it dies. :slight_smile:

AND HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

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Well, many won’t read at all, but will add their contribution (which is relative). Because that is a communication weakness in humans.

That starts with the language. German for example, there is one and the same word for opposite meanings.

So how would you decide in this case how it is meant ?

It is simply the problem that nobody is able to express his opinion or what he wants to express in such a way that the opposite person gets it 100%.

And as long as this “inability” exists, it will always lead to misunderstandings and various other things that are based on it.

Intellectuality can cushion this, but not prevent it.