Someone defending triglavian ships: “it’s balanced because they require perfect fitting skills”.
Me: “perfect fitting skills are common and a high priority for training so this means very little”.
You: “PERFECT FITTING SKILLS DON’T EXIST”.
IOW, pay attention to the context of the discussion before posting nonsense.
So w/e - Just another person in the string of people trying to change eve to fit them.
Oh look, another idiot insisting that balance changes can never be made because ADAPT OR DIE LOLOLOLOLOLLOL.
Here’s a hint, I’m perfectly willing to exploit the overpowered things and win with them. That doesn’t mean that they’re balanced and shouldn’t be nerfed. But just keep on demonstrating that you’re a selfish little **** who doesn’t care about the overall health and balance of the game as long as your favorite overpowered thing doesn’t get nerfed.
I’ve linked a fit, the answer is : no. it is not hard at all to fit 4 large rep t2 without any implant and beeing cap stable at the same time.
This is a fit I readapted with a point :
[Leshak, *Leshak_op_Lol]
Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Entropic Radiation Sink II
Entropic Radiation Sink II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy 1600mm Steel Plates
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
500MN Microwarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Veles Supratidal Entropic Disintegrator
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Praetor II x4
Imperial Navy Curator x4
Hornet EC-300 x5
ECCM Script x1
Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x1
Core Scanner Probe I x8
Targeting Range Script x1
Scan Resolution Script x1
Tetryon Exotic Plasma L x1748
Baryon Exotic Plasma L x1877
Meson Exotic Plasma L x1476
Sensor Booster II x1
Improved Cloaking Device II x1
Core Probe Launcher I x1
Entropic Radiation Sink II x1
If you want to have a sabre for tacle and use blob fleet fit, remoove the disruptor by a sebo eccm you will laugh
Do you want a 830m fit ? I can do it for you if you are not able to do it. The price of 1 set of T2 guns for a dread if you want to talk about money.
One idiot say trig turrets OP, another not DPS but everything else Op.
Make up your minds its one or the other.
Edit:
One thing you notice is these posting about OP disregard is the extremely low shield HP all trig ships have, and other features.
They spout off that “its an armor tank ship, it doesn’t need shield HP”, sure if all other armor tank ships were the same, then there would be no issue.
But all other armor tank ships have much higher shield HP, if you compare all ships of the same class you’ll find the following;
Trig ship are in the high armor HP groups (not as high as some Amarr ships)
Trig ship CAP stats are similar to Amarr ships, but no where near the Apoc
Trig ships all have the lowest number of slots (even T2 ships with the reduced RIG slots, still have more than Trig ships)
Trig ships shield HP are the lowest of their size class to the point that its in the next size down (the leshak default shield is below most Battlecruisers HP, only slightly better than armor tank battlecruisers)
Sure all trig ships get a nice remote armor repair bonus to range and cap use, but this is only useful in fleets, and designed to force Trig pilots to fleet to help maintain a good Armor HP regen to counter the extremely low shield HP.
And to those that say shield hp isn’t important for armor tank fits, partly true. Any good player knows that shield HP provides extra time before they have start low slot reps or get remote rep support. The longer damage taken by shields the better.
You do realize it this were to happen, it would mean other faction ships would have to be rebalanced to match this.
Just for prospective, this is from years ago.
Here’s the full post, the above link talks about all the Trig ships at the time and the then current balancing being done.
OK so I’ve redone the whole T1 comparison with the Leshak, and based on the general agreement compared it with the Naval Faction ships, and got some interesting results. There is still an issue with the low EHP, but I’ll cover that later on in the post.
Please remember following details of the Leshak and all Naval Faction ships_(please note I’ll use the default name of ships, so remember these are the Naval versions I’m ref. to)_ and where it sits based on pure ship specs and no modules or skills in affect;
Shield; average shield of all Battleships is 8,9111HP (highest of 11,500HP with the Scorpion and lowest of 8,000HP with the Apoc) the Leshak sits well below the average, and is equal in shield HP as the best Battlecruiser with 3,500HP
Armour; average armour of all Battleships is 9,922HP (highest of 11,500HP with the Armageddon and lowest of 8,000HP with Raven) the Leshak sits just above the average by @600HP, with 10,500HP
Hull; average hull of all Battleships is 9,555HP (highest of 11,000hp with the Dominix and lowest of 8,000HP with the Leshak )
Resistances for the Leshak mirrors all other Battleships, though it should be noted that some armour resistances are in the low battleship levels.
Kin = low side with 25% (high side is 35%)
Exp = high side with 20% (low side is 10%)
Ther = low side with 35% (high side is 45%)
EM = low side with 50% (high side is 60%)
Shield Regeneration rate is equal to the average Battleship rates with double the Shield HP of the Leshak.
CPU: the average for all Battleships is 650.0 tf, the Leshak is below this with 625.00 tf Power Grid: average for all battleships is 15,252 MW (with high 22,000MW with the Apoc and low 11,000 with the Scorp/Domin), the Leshak is above average with 17,000MW(see notes below)
CAP Regeneration: average 1,094 sec (worse 1,150sec, best 1,000) Leshak rate is equal with the Apoc. at 1,000sec CAP Capacity: average 5,977.7 (high 7,000 with the Apoc, low 5,500 with Domi) Leshak is above the average with 6,600 Inertia Mod Leshak has the highest, so turns slower than all other Navy Factions Battleships. Ship Signature is average Scan Res is average Target Range is average Sensor Strength is 3rd highest equal Speed is just below average Drone capacity is the 4th best Drone bandwidth is average with 100mb/s
Slots; Low; highest equal four others with 8 slots (average 7) Medium; Lowest equal with 4 others with 4 slots (average 5) High; Lowest with 5 slots, next lowest is the Dominix with 6 slots (average 7)
EHP: the average is 53,575 ehp (high 57,300 ehp with the Scorp/Domi, lowest 49,800 ehp with the Typhoon) the Leshak comes well below the average with 40,400 ehp(personally I think this is due to the shield HP being 2,500HP below the lowest Battleships shield HP, this could be address with ether a resistance boost to the armour or a slight HP increase to armour, ether would tie in with lore)
Notes:
EHP: to address the low EHP compared to all other Battleships T1 and Naval Faction the Leshak would require a boost to it’s defensive stats.
I’ve found just the basic addition of the following brought it to just below the Typhoon in EHP.
Suggested EHP changes:
increase armour HP by 2,500HP
Now the following it a mixed option, as doesn’t change the default EHP stats, but does help with in fitting requirements (CPU and PowerGrid) and adds a little boost to EHP when modules fitted;
Armour modules (not rigs), require 25% less fitting requirements
Armour resistance increases by 4% per level on ship skill
Armour Plates have a reduced mass by 10%
Now I did look at the possibility of increasing the Armour resistances, and it would work to get the basic stats EHP up, but reading a few things and knowing how tanking resistances work, by increasing the base resistances would work against the Precusor ship design. As increasing the resistances would mean the first armour module would have lesser of an effect. So ideally we don’t want to change these, as they’ll reduce the armour tanking effectiveness, I think CCP did the right things with the armour resistances. The main problem I see is they forgot to counter that massive shield HP drop with an armour HP increase.
I think other than those suggestions is maybe looking at a 5-10% reduction on fitting requirements for Electronics and Sensor Upgrades, Electronic Warfare and Turret upgrade modules, nothing too huge, but when combined helps to provide the CPU and Powergrid short fall when mounting the Disinegrator and Smartbomb.
As for the 5th med-slot, it would be a nice addition, but if the above were done then we should be able to reduce the number of reactor and cpu modules and rigs required to a nicer number.
As a closing note ISK value. (at the time in 2018)
The Average sales price of all Naval Battleships (excluding the Leshak in the numbers) is 524mil (highest being 620mil average price for the Raven and 381.mil being the lowest aveerage for the Tempest) , the current available for the Leshak is 842mil, and for a new Faction(naval faction equivalent )_ it’s not too bad, maybe a fraction high, but not to majorly when you think of it as an Navy ship, if you think of it as an standard T1 then yip way over priced, but it isn’t from what I’ve found so far.
It was found the other Trig ships were similar. And the biggest issues with CPU and PowerGrid requiring lowslot use to counter the low amounts.
S’okay he reported my post that said “dumbass” as “offensive”, I lol’ed.
Bottom line is, I looked at his kb and checked him out
My guess is he doesn’t know how to earn decent ISK, want’s the ships i.e trigs nerfed so they go down in price. It’s pathetically obvious. To even accuse these turrets as OP is just pure levels of stupid. I fly both the Drek and leshak and my mega with my skills does better than the leshak.
He really has no idea how the ships work. just another forum post trying to drag others down to their level of “epic fail”
The spin-up could use a nudge. I’d be willing (not that anyone else needs to be) to see a smidge of resists go away in favor of faster dmg escalation. Or not go away, and there’s still a nudge to dmg. But anything else…NO TOUCHIE
