This is why ganked freighter pilots deserve zero sympathy

[Xebov]

@Solonius_Rex

I dont see how the same amount of EHP as a tanked battleship, is a “Small” benefit. If i could increase the tank of my frigate by 100k EHP, would you consider that “Small”?

Its not the resulting value, its the increase, how its done and what downsides it has.

If i look at my Mission Battleship i get an increase of ~40% just by adding some hardeners. My Base HP stays the same, so that increase simply reduces the damage taken making it easier to support. For Freighters this is different. You get 33%, this is not bad, but you simply increase the health pool while still taking the same damage. Thats a huge difference. Also you cant realy support a Freighter since remote supporting is mainly for shield/ armor which you cant tank at all. As a result it is a small benefit as you cant realy get anything out of it gameplaywise.

@Solonius_Rex

Sure. Gankers put in a lot of effort by fielding 30 man fleets to take down freighters.

And you think that some mere modules should be equivalent to the effort of fielding a 30 man fleet?

Are you kidding me?

I wouldnt call “logging in 10-30 characters per player” efford to begin with. But yes it would change something. Alone being able to fit an MWD would reduce the possible attack window down to 10s from the 20-45 you currently get. This will not help always, but i have no doubt it will help here and there. In addition to that adding some propper modules could improve gameplay overall. If they feel good about it they could revamp the way tehse freighters are tanked to a classical way where you simply trade in cargo for tank and can get propper logi support if you want.

So yes, i think there can be done alot to improve it, even in the field of getting gankers into putting actual effort into it.

@Solonius_Rex

This, compounded by the warp speed, will not make a difference to AFK piloting.

Not for all, but maybe for some.

@Solonius_Rex

Greedy for choosing speed or capacity over tank, and lazy for only flying 1 account and thinking that modules should bridge the gap between 1 player and 30.

Its mostly lazy, not greedy. And to add to the 1 vs 30. Its not 1 vs 30. If i look at some of the Killmails CORE posts its more on the lines 1 vs 3. With 3 players simply logging in 10-20 characters per player to gank. And thats the core problem here. Even if freighter pilots would use additional characters you would still end in the same pit. You cant realy support a Freighter and teamplay in terms of remote supporting or guarding it. Its highly limited while at the same moment it becomes easy to log in dotzens of characters and put them on the ship. The only effort for gankers here is the multitasking required to get the login done.

What you realy need is a change of freighters from hull tanks towards armor/shield tanks with real tank modules that take away cargo for tanking capabilities (like Bulkheads currently do for hull and specific for freighters) making them armor/shield tanks like every other ship in the game. This would allow support fleets for freighters and these fleets would add some depth to it by enforcing tactics to gankers. They in turn would be required to gank away the support ships or risk failing, which would make ganking less lazy and would reduce the “hey my job is so easy i can operate 10 characters at once”.

@Solonius_Rex

The fact of the matter is, your proposed freighter, already exists. Its called a Deep Space Transport, and can carry 60km3 of goods while having the full utility of mid and high slots as well as rigs, with a mere 15 second align time.

Im thinking more about current Freighters with ~250k m3 in full tank mode that can be externally supported.

[Solonius_Rex]

@Xebov

You get 33%, this is not bad, but you simply increase the health pool while still taking the same damage.

Did you actually go out and try to see how accurate your claims are?

First off, its 303k EHP to 499k EHP. That is actually a 60% jump in EHP. Since were talking about 40% based on hardeners, which is clearly discussing the EHP of the battleship, lets be honest and compare those numbers.

Secondly, its not a 33% increase in raw HP, its actually closer to 40%. I have an obelisk which has 202k Raw HP without bulkheads, and 335k raw HP with bulkheads. So your numbers are still off.

@Xebov

As a result it is a small benefit as you cant realy get anything out of it gameplaywise.

This is ridiculous. As i said before, you get a 200k EHP increase and a 100k raw HP increase. Compare that to a megathron that you add resists to, and how much EHP/raw HP do you get? Is it even possible to increase a battleship by 200k EHP without faction mods or implants?

You keep saying this is small. And yet, by every metric, by every measure, the difference is huge. You even admit that 33% increase in HP/EHP isnt too bad. Youve refuted your own arguments here.

@Xebov

I wouldnt call “logging in 10-30 characters per player” efford to begin with.

Tell that to the Kusions who manages 15 alts at the same time. Remember, multiple input programs are banned, and he only has a 20 second window to gank.

But even if that werent the case, are you seriously suggesting that bringing together, organizing and handing out ships and coordinating with 20 other people is not much more effort than autopiloting an AFK freighter?

@Xebov

Alone being able to fit an MWD would reduce the possible attack window down to 10s from the 20-45 you currently get.

I get 10 seconds on my DST. I have a hard time understanding what ship youve been flying, because its almost as if youve never flown a capital, or a freighter before, and are utterly ignorant of how MWDs work and how much effect they have when you place a lower-tier MWD onto a larger ship.

@Xebov

Its mostly lazy, not greedy.

Its greed. An unfit freighter, is lazy. A freighter fit for speed? For volume? These freighters have players who actually had access to, and bought the fittings, and decided to go for speed and/or volume. This is greed, nothing more.

@Xebov

Even if freighter pilots would use additional characters you would still end in the same pit.

Yes, you can. Its called a scout and a web. You can scout for the gankers from the next system over, and you can web your freighter.

Guess how long it takes to warp a freighter with a proper web alt?

4 seconds.

I tried it.

@Xebov

What you realy need is a change of freighters from hull tanks towards armor/shield tanks with real tank modules that take away cargo for tanking capabilities (like Bulkheads currently do for hull and specific for freighters) making them armor/shield tanks like every other ship in the game. This would allow support fleets for freighters and these fleets would add some depth to it by enforcing tactics to gankers. They in turn would be required to gank away the support ships or risk failing, which would make ganking less lazy and would reduce the

All of this is moot, when you have a single, a SINGLE web alt. You can warp in 4-5 seconds flat, with a web alt.

Its as if youve never flown a freighter with an alt before.

@Xebov

“hey my job is so easy i can operate 10 characters at once”.

You are either vastly ignorant, or extremely dim-witted.

@Xebov

so easy

@Xebov

operate 10 characters

@Xebov

so easy

@Xebov

operate 10 characters

@Xebov

10

@Xebov

easy

So using a single web alt must be as easy as breathing. So why are freighter pilots dying. Can they not breath?

[Ima_Wreckyou]

@DrysonBennington

You really do need to shut up. You are blaming the freighter pilot for being ganked because of how they fit their ship.

A freighter has severely limited options in how it can be fit.

All they need to fit is bulkheads and a mining permit. And yes it is the freighter pilots fault if he does not comply with the Code.

[Dravick_Afterthought]

You seem to be confusing me with someone who gives a ■■■■…

[Vipsan_Agrippa]

Cared enough to post, seems your logic is unsound as your spelling/grammar nazi behaviour.

[Dravick_Afterthought]

[Xebov]

@Solonius_Rex

Did you actually go out and try to see how accurate your claims are?

Im sorry, i misread something along the lines. However, it is still unsupportable HP as it does not reduce the dps you take and does adds nothing supportable to the table.

@Solonius_Rex

Tell that to the Kusions who manages 15 alts at the same time. Remember, multiple input programs are banned, and he only has a 20 second window to gank.

But even if that werent the case, are you seriously suggesting that bringing together, organizing and handing out ships and coordinating with 20 other people is not much more effort than autopiloting an AFK freighter?

I would tell him and the next thing i would do is invite him to actually live show this on a different PC…

If there are 20 players coordinating and they bring down a freighter its a different story. But if its only 2 or 3 you get an in place force multiplication that is based purely on technological availability and human training/capabilities, i leave it to everyone to think about what part has a larger impact.

Still there is a good chance to catch a active piloted freighter because of how little active piloting adds.

@Solonius_Rex

I get 10 seconds on my DST. I have a hard time understanding what ship youve been flying, because its almost as if youve never flown a capital, or a freighter before, and are utterly ignorant of how MWDs work and how much effect they have when you place a lower-tier MWD onto a larger ship.

Both Orcas and Bowheads can get into warp using a 500mn MWD with one pulse. And last time i looked they where not Battleships.

@Solonius_Rex

Its greed. An unfit freighter, is lazy. A freighter fit for speed? For volume? These freighters have players who actually had access to, and bought the fittings, and decided to go for speed and/or volume. This is greed, nothing more.

Its lazyness. To lazy to fly twice. Did want to safe time. Overall Freighetrs are overal bad and its not fun to fly around for hours actively.

@Solonius_Rex

Yes, you can. Its called a scout and a web. You can scout for the gankers from the next system over, and you can web your freighter.

Guess how long it takes to warp a freighter with a proper web alt?

4 seconds.

I tried it.

And thats all you can do. You have one option and thats it. Everything else the game might have cannot be applied.

@Solonius_Rex

So using a single web alt must be as easy as breathing. So why are freighter pilots dying. Can they not breath?

It is, but maybe not everyone wants to multibox to counter multiboxers. But thats just a guess…

Also its the only option you have which is very limited compared to the games possibilities.

@Ima_Wreckyou

All they need to fit is bulkheads and a mining permit. And yes it is the freighter pilots fault if he does not comply with the Code.

Code acts out of greed. The kill mails posted are bragging that they got the biggest cherry from the tree and they picked these ones because of profit. I have my doubts that they will stick to their own rules. Im pretty sure if they see a good oportunity they will gank and come up with a nice little story why your permit wasnt valid anymore or how you never had one in the first place.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

@Xebov

Code acts out of greed. The kill mails posted are bragging that they got the biggest cherry from the tree and they picked these ones because of profit. I have my doubts that they will stick to their own rules. Im pretty sure if they see a good oportunity they will gank and come up with a nice little story why your permit wasnt valid anymore or how you never had one in the first place.

It is impossible to get ganked if you follow the Code. Seriously, instead of crying for changes to the game why not just invest the minimal amount of effort it takes you to make you not a target.

I know it is much more convenient to just play the victim and blame others for your bad decisions.

[Xebov]

@Ima_Wreckyou

It is impossible to get ganked if you follow the Code. Seriously, instead of crying for changes to the game why not just invest the minimal amount of effort it takes you to make you not a target.

I know it is much more convenient to just play the victim and blame others for your bad decisions.

With no word i said that i dont expect players to take some efford to reduce their risk of being ganked.

I just pointed out that the kill mails posted are all high value targets that where picked because they could make good profit out of it. If they realy wanted to stop AFK Freighters they would attack all Freighters, not just the ones giving profit. The bottom line of this thread is “We will kill you if you fly AFK, but only if its worth it for us”. And since we are playing EVE this leads me to the point where im sure that they will bend their rules to fit their needs whenever they want.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

It’s always surprising to me that some think that people who pirate in highsec are pirates is some kind of insight worth sharing with others.

[Xebov]

You started with “follow the Code” etc. And now you are like 180 degrees turning away…

[Ima_Wreckyou]

Yeah, if you follow the Code it is impossible to get ganked. Not really hard to understand right?

Oh did you think the permit was the only provision?

[Xebov]

You realy need to stick to one direction.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

I’m perfectly consistent with what I wrote. Not my problem if you have troubles understanding a rather easy situation.

[Xebov]

You wrote that ppl should follow the code to prevent ganking. I raised concerns that they will bend their rules. You then said they are pirates and that this is no insight for you. And now we are back at the code. Which menas we moved into 2 directions.

Either code will obey its own rules and never bend it or they will not, you cant have both.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

We don’t bed the rules in any way. If you follow the Code it will be impossible to gank you.

You seem a bit confused by all this.

[Xebov]

Then go forward and tell me this. If someone follows your rules and has valueable cargo would you keep him alone? And what would you do if some of you would still gank it for the profit? Do you stand up and reimburse it?

[Ima_Wreckyou]

Sure, because it would be impossible to gank him if he followed the Code.

Maybe we don’t speak the same language here. I explained this multiple times now I think.

[Xebov]

Maybe you should clear up that impossible tag for me.

[Ima_Wreckyou]

In general, if you are confused, just listen to what your local New Order Agent tells you to do. Understanding is not required, only obedience.