None of that would actually really help, TiDi isn’t caused by POS that aren’t even online or doing anything, its caused by calculations involving things actually in the fight
And there isn’t any point in throwing more nodes at the problem, the way the game is designed to work the calculations need to be done in a specific order so its still down to pure single threaded grunt, its why TiDi is the effective solution to the issue because it slows down the simulation and lets the server process everything properly
Unless you’re going to invent a super CPU that has single cores running at a billion ghz there isn’t really a solution on this scale, its why most games don’t bother going to this scale
So you would love to be sat at a stargate being denied entry to a battle because 100 people already beat you there? because i can guarantee you wouldn’t be lol
Because what you’re saying is the first alliance to reach x people in system basically wins because nobody else can enter to stop them
Thank you for telling me I don’t need to read the rest of your post. I didn’t say tidi was caused by POS modules not even in a fight. Nor did anyone think any theoretical Eve 2 should be bound by the god awful single coring issue that makes the present code rely on tidi to handle its insufficiencies.
You nor I can say what would happen if CCP actually went through with a theoretical Eve 2 and did the massive code revamping that it would only be mandatory for them to do if they were going to undertake such an endeavor.
I only said it could be used to do more than just help alleviate the tidi problem, and listed some examples.
No but you were under the impression that removing them and systems would make literally any difference to the game, because it wouldn’t, i mean you’re free to not read the rest but thats your loss not mine
We pretty much can though thats the thing, aslong as combat still needs to happen in the same order there is only so much threading you can do, the damage from a gun is still reliant on the server state at the time its fired and the stats of the ship as calculated in that second and all the things that have affected the ship since the last server tick which updated the simulation
When it comes to combat you can’t skip steps as data further down the chain relies on calculations being done prior to its execution, much like you can’t walk out of your house until you first open the front door which may in turn require you to open a lock first
The only way to reduce the load is to reduce the scale, which is what other MMO’s do in order to avoid this scenario, there is a reason they have different realms and instances of their worlds, its just basic logic
None of those examples would help TiDi in the least though, thats the thing, massive fleet fights already get allocated to nodes only running a single system, but there is a limit to what any node can handle and as fleet fights get larger and larger they reach the limit of what a node can compute in any given time
Sure you might be able to offload calculations on a different grid to a different core, but the system would still run at the slowest speed required by the battle with the most computations, there is no way around that
Again, thanks for making it clear out of the gate I don’t need to read the rest of your post.
Removing systems from the game would ‘literally’ fundamentally change the game because they wouldn’t be there anymore. It’d change the star gate connections, regions, etc. Since you’re lacking the brain cells to gather such a basic concept, kindly get stuffed. I’ve got better things to do with my time than read a forum know it all.
But none of that would change TiDi in the least, i’m honestly confused how you think the number of systems in the game has any connection to TiDi in a single system running on its own node, a reinforced node isn’t running any other systems on it, or do you not understand how the EVE cluster works?
You know a cluster is a group of machines and not just a single actual server?
If EVE were running on an actual single server you would have a point, but as EVE runs on a cluster of machines there is literally no connection between TiDi and systems with only 1 people in them unless a node remap goes horridly wrong
So cutting down the number of systems or stargate connections would have literally no effect on TiDi because TiDi is caused by a single node within the EVE cluster reaching capacity, its the reason you don’t feel the effects of TiDi in unrelated systems
There genuinely seems to be some confusion with how you think the server runs and how it actually does, we are more than happy to bring you up to speed
Right, but reducing the scope of EVE wouldn’t be doing the game any real favours, so i’m unsure why they would bother, what would be the point of trying to play an MMO where 30,000 people were all crammed in to a tiny place, that would only increase the chances of TiDi etc
What benefits do you seem to think would actually be gained by removing systems for en EVE 2.0 exactly?
Well considering the discussion was related to TiDi your comment was interpreted in that context, even in the context you meant it i’m still not seeing a benefit, given the scales involved making the universe smaller would only serve to harm any attempts to essentially restart the game, changing the universe layout also wouldn’t really do much, the bottleneck systems would change but they would still exist, the trade hubs would move but they would still naturally form, just like Jita formed after the highways were changed years ago causing Yulai to cease being the central trade hub
eve is amazing and unique because of the HUGE amount of work put into it
its like nethack , dwarf fortress and other perma in development games
you cant just go there and do a
things don’t work that way
doesn’t matter how much money you trow in
look at cyberpunk
or star citizen …
edit:
lear no be amazed by amazing things
kids this days …
Why should they not? All you need to have is enough instances. Besides, we managed with 100-200 people just fine 10 years ago. Back then, we didn’t need (and didn’t have) 6k people to attack and defend a structure.
And quite frankly, I rather take the blackscreen crash than hours and hours in tidi with laggy client and underwhelming fun.
That happens now, too, just with a few thousand chars on reinforced nodes and on an unreinforced node it just takes about 1000 chars to pack a system.
Because you can’t have 6 instances fighting over the same structure, the structures stats need to be the same across each instance, and the progress on that structure would somehow need to be duplicated, then there is the issue of not ending up in the right instance with the rest of your fleet due to hitting the player cap etc
It just doesn’t work
No but back then battles still escalated and everyone brought everyone they could, which is the same now, you’ll also remember that shooting at large POS back then was also extremely boring as we also didn’t have capitals back in the day, now alliances are much large and you can field that many players, and nobody wants to be told they can’t defend their home because the instance cap was reached lol
Yeah so you would rather have your character stuck unable to even play the game at all because they were mid node transfer when it crashed, all the issues with ship stats not being synced causing ghost ships that couldn’t be destroyed that persisted until the next server reboot, all the serverside work that has to be done in order to rectify all the conflicting game states
Yeah i’ll take a clean TiDi over a lagfest that might end up rendering me unable to login and play the game for up to 23 hours just because someone doesn’t want to have to wait patiently
Sure, but there isn’t a hard cap of numbers, the system won’t simply stop letting people in once 100 people are in system, and even then with a few thousand in system you’re likely to actually have people from both sides present, once you start limiting a system to 500 people to prevent TiDi you just end up with a single fleet occupying the system, you then also make it so defending a system becomes trivial as you just have people logged off in system ready to login and prevent invaders from even jumping in to the system in the first place
You really haven’t considered the repercussions of what you’re asking for
There is a lot more at play than just “Let me have a blackscreen instead” and you don’t have to deal with the cleanup after, the issues with invalid ship states preventing you from even warping around when you login, people always seem to treat TiDi like a problem when its actually a very elegant solution to the problem of unpredictability in a game with this massive a scale
Of course you can have that. I have suggested just that repeatedly for breaking up the Keepstar fights. You have 5 nodes (or the max number of systems in a constellation if the system number is less than 5). You have to control the majority of these nodes to either damage or repair the Keepstar. That way, the thousands of people have to split into several systems and even if one system breaks into a tidimess due to capital escalations, the other systems can still work reasonably well and allow the rest of the people to continue to contribute to either attacking or defending the Keepstar.
Everyone they could didn’t mean 13k characters.
Yes, this is preferable to sitting 6+ hours in tidi that I could have spent more productively with work, watching a movie, playing other games or enjoying the sunshine.
Speak for yourself. What you “take” is not happening and will never happen because people will always break whatever hardware power CCP adds to the cluster.
Stop repeating that crap. It does not become true the more you repeat it. There is a hard cap and it is pretty easy to exploit if you are big enough.
Yes, we have seen that after M2, after pretty much any super capital engagement. People were left stranded in a system not knowing what was going on with their ship. Even yesterday with far fewer people involved, the server buckled hard. The difference between your “I take tidi” and my “I take the blackscreen with fewer people causing it” is that in my entitled view far fewer people have to be subjected to this utter mess.
IT is a problem if it is the only “solution” to the core issue. CCP has not tackled the core issue of big battles simply because they use these utterly unsatisfying experiences for their deceptive marketing. If the core issue (the server cannot handle the number of characters and entities in a system) were to be resolved for things like Keepstars, tidi would be a far smaller problem.
Yeah thats a terrible idea for deciding fights, we both know it, it also means you’re stuck with the issue that you can just fill those instances with alts and not actually end up having to defend stuff, and the last thing you really want to promote is 500 alpha alts holding a station preventing you from taking it
So yeah its a terrible idea and it doesn’t really work
Thats because you didn’t have access to that many friends back then, back before wormholes, back before jump drives, hell back before warp to zero, if we had the same logistics options then as we do now then yes those fights would have been attempted back then, granted the node would have caught fire before you got to those numbers but it would have been possible
So don’t sit in TiDi then, or are you upset you apparently have no way to avoid a TiDi battle, because you can do all of those things instead of fighting, nobody is able to force you to commit to a fight lol
You can literally choose to go and do those things
Its already happening, the end results from a battle with TiDi are so much more cleaner than they ever were before the system was added, its literally night and day, sure you don’t like it but that doesn’t change that adding TiDi actually fixed a lot of issues and actually made large scale fights playable
There is a theoretical cap sure, but in your case you seem to want a literal hard cap of x people on a node to prevent TiDi, which is NEVER going to happen because it literally goes against everything EVE was made to be
Well don;t subject yourself to this mess then, you’re in control of where your ship goes, if YOU don’t like TiDi then don’t go near battles that are likely to cause it, the majority of people would rather have TiDi than deal with the absolute mess that is constant node deaths anytime a battle of more than 100 people breaks out
No it wouldn’t, because people will always try to bring n+1 people to a battle, you can’t cap the number of people in an engagement because that isn’t how the game is designed to be played, again you don’t seem to comprehend that there is not a solution to the issue of numbers when you’re dealing with a single sharded universe, the solution is instancing and that doesn’t work in EVE, if you want to go and play an instanced MMO then by all means pick any of them, the key difference here is that EVE is a single sharded game, everyone exists in the same universe at the same time, none of this realm BS and having friends in other instances unable to to interact with them
That brings unique problems to the table and TiDi is the smart solution to that problem without literally destroying what makes EVE the game it is
How do you stuff these instances with alts if they are open nodes like Fozzisov nodes (just not moving around)? A terrible idea is to keep the current system up and just make it so ever more people can “enjoy” this mess.
Ah, of course! I shouldn’t sit in tidi. I knew there was an easy solution. Just tell me 2 things: How am I not supposed to sit in tidi, if several systems around the system with the objective are also in tidi. And how am I supposed to achieve the objective if I am not sitting in tidi?
And that is the attitude that makes me snap. This flagrant disregard for anything related to mechanics and CCP developments. Someone who argues like that has not the slightest clue about anything. That was clear when you tried to argue in EDI, it’s blatantly clear here, too.
They are not at all cleaner. They just allow more characters to enjoy the very unclean experience of tidilagfest. Just because more characters can be crammed into a system before it becomes unplayable does not at all mean that the tech in it self works “cleaner”. The issues that made the tech buckle and give in have never been resolved. CCP just added more processing power and tidi to mask the underlying issues.
No one wants to have tidi and lagfests combined. If tidi actually solved the lags, unresponsiveness and unplayability of EVE, there would not be an issue. But tidi does not do that. It makes this entire experience worse by making you suffer through this crap for even longer.
It is not a solution. If it were a solution, I wouldn’t argue with you about this. All it is is a mask. A mask to conceal the mess. And it’s not doing a good job.
Oh you’re confusing actual nodes with fozziesov sites, i see where your issue is, and no, spreading things out doesn’t really solve the issue, the server is still processing the same amount of data so you’ll get the same issues as the entire solar system is still running on the same physical node so TiDi would still happen, TiDi affects the entire system so not being on the same grid doesn’t change that
But it does explain why you think this would be a solution
The rest is entirely moot now that we’ve corrected this, the only way to reduce node lag is to not have the same number of people present inside the system at all which would require you to instance them and that would result in you being able to stuff nodes (actual nodes not the sov crap) with alts to prevent people from participating
Even if you introduced a fozzie minigame you would still have the same lag and still get TiDi
Yes, it does solve problems. You didn’t understand that the Keepstar nodes spawn in several systems, not in the same system. If you intentionally misunderstand my suggestion, it’s clear why you don’t understand how it is a solution to the problem.
You have not corrected anything. You have only shown that you cannot read. Let me quote what you didn’t understand:
No where did I say that the nodes are all in one system.
But you know what is funny? Even on different grids in the same system, the experience can be much better than if all 13k or 6k people are stuffed together on one grid. You still have the same tidi, but the lag is much more bearable. That moots all your arguments. And now go educate yourself a bit about what people say before you mess things up. I suggest you take some of your tidi to be able to digest words better.
