This ruined the thread for me. It needs the satirical tone.
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I feel like there are Capsuleers like yourself and Arrendis, Arradina herself and others who can be relied upon to provide the Satirical Tone.
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Heart-Of-The-Forest
One of the five agents of the Maker; The winds, as they’re more famously known as. Often HoTF is overlooked by more renowned spirits such Cold Wind or Mountain Wind. But HoTF is arguable the most essential one of the five.
Heart of the Forest is the great provider. Her influence can found in the roots of all plant life found planetside. Wielding powers that made her capable of bringing vegetation to the barren tundra of Caldari Prime.
She attracts game, both human and animal alike. A elegant battlefield meant for precision and patience rather than brute force that a warrior brings.
Which is to say I never had the chops to be a hunter growing up…
Her benevolent gifts of delicious nutrients or herbs come with the challenge of survival. In true fashion with the other winds. You will face predators as well as creatures who will render no harm. But you are there to gather what you need, so prepare yourself mentally and physically.
To kill a animal in the wild is to show it as much respect and you can by maximizing what you can out the remains. As they would with ours hopefully. As humans however we have more ideas in mind than they would. Meat, pelts and whatever else remains could be biomassed.
As explained before, it would be continuing them on by making them apart of the organic fabric of a clone. In a way, it is apart of the cycle once again.
These Driffters however, are no animals, nor humans. What the Driffters do to corpses is nothing natural. Nothing flattering about it and certainly nothing good for nature is coming out of it.
These beings are not of nature. They’re nothing but walking computers dressed in skin of a corpse. No cremation of any sort. Just took the body as it is as and converted into another drone for them to use to meddle in our affairs.
There’s nothing slightly natural about these Driffters. Let alone, anything human about them.
I still do not doubt humanity’s position over these creatures. We will prove it I promise you.
Quite, humor is always good, helps to cope. Especially in the time of such a serious matter like the Driffters. But speaking up about what these Drifters really do require a serious tone.
Though I admit there is such thing as a edge being a tad to sharp.
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I think working with Veikitamo broke my sense of scale on ‘too edgy’.
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This is patently absurd. Of course Drifters are natural. We’re natural. The autopsy demonstrated that they’re basically Jovian—ie: genetically manipulated humans. Which means it’s all natural. We like to claim ‘artificial’ things aren’t natural, but it’s all nonsense. Termite mounds are natural… but they’re still works of directed artifice on the part of the termites.
Likewise, everything we do is ultimately natural. That’s just masked by the way that natural origin is masked in the recursive complexity of thousands of years of iteration and continued development.
And if everything we do is ultimately natural, then everything humanity has ever done is ultimately natural… including the Jovians’ genetic manipulations. They turned out to be a dead end, but natural speciation is rife with dead ends, paths that eventually ran head-first into extinction.
Unless you’re going to claim the Drifters have some supernatural origin… they cannot be anything but natural. They are no less animals than you are, Infomorph, with your multiple, serially-disposable bodies and your mind existing as software that is transferred via computer network wherever it needs to go… death clone, jump clone, the stored engrams that are downloaded again into a softclone if you get killed outside the pod…
… where do you think that engram exists right now, between back-ups? If you were to blow your own brains out, standing in the middle of a corridor somewhere, another you would wake up. That you wouldn’t remember anything after your last engram backup… how is that different, Infomorph?
WE are computers, dressed in recycled amino acids. Why do you think the baseliners in power are so afraid of us, and so eager to keep us turning our guns on one another?
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No, they’re not natural.
The autopsy only confirms that these Driffters are nothing but freaks. If they’re Basically Jovians then they’re absolutely not human. The Jovians abandoned their membership of our species when they started cutting away at their own genetics. Cutting out emotions and thinking processes that nature gave us, but didn’t for I. Their foolish vision of perfection.
Damn Jovians got what was coming to them. A reminder to those that think their genetics and DNA are something to to with to the extent the Jovians had.
Yes, everything we do is natural. Our actions are backed by human motivation, emotions, passion and desire. Nature brought life to us and made us apart of the Maker’s world. There’s nothing wrong us humans and what we do.
Consider it a lession of the dangers bio-engineering can have. We do not need to change our DNA or rewrite our genetic code. We do not need to start growing our next generations out if tubes in a science facility and we do not need to start altering our psychology to strive towards “perfection”
Nonsense! These Driffters are straight out of some fiction-science novel or holo-game. Walking examples of technology going way to far.
My spirit, my flesh and my mind are all things that make me human. These Driffters are nothing more than hallowed husks with no connection to any spiritual realm. Their flesh tainted and mutilated. Then their mind possibly just some literal computer designed to carry whatever it was programmed to do.
Organic computers, maybe. I’d soon cut my cloning contracts then live with a pure metallic machine for a mind. Implants are acceptable within reason, but if these Driffters actually have a computer for a mind. Then they’re no differnt than rogue drones with their false sense of sentience. Machines and artificial intelligence that have some notion they’re either on even playing fields as us or superior. Both are utter lies, they’re beneath us.
Just more adminations that need to be removed to restore balance to our world.
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This would include the natural actions of the humans who began cutting away at their own genetics. Which means they’re still natural. Can’t escape it that way, I’m afraid. Their actions were also backed by human motivation: the desire for self-improvement, for progress.
And what some of us did was make themselves into Jovians. Thus, there was nothing ‘wrong’ with Jovians. It just didn’t work out for them. And the Drifters appear to be a Jovian offshoot. By your own logic, they’re a natural result of human nature.
Show me this spiritual realm you claim exists.
Where does the engram to backup your infomorph in case of outside-the-pod death exist right now? Hint: It’s not in anything organic. It’s data. In a computer.
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Yes, their insanity drove them to such extreme lengths that they ended up becoming a new species entirely, the Jovian. As I said, they’ve abandoned their humanity to become something else. No sense of rationality in their actions as they butcher their genetic code and force it down to their next generation to make it the norm.
All in some vain quest for “Perfection”. But perfe tion though science is a lie.
If the Driffters are Jovian off-shoots then I turn to my previous statement. Jovians are not human, they’re Jovian. Their own insane ideas led them down dark paths that made them stray off from our species.
At yes, this timeless question that suppoviely is used to debunk any and all forms of spirituality.
Our eyes are not to see another realm. But to see the one we are born into. To admire the work and craftsmanship of the Maker. We’re given eyes to see around us, not beyond us. It’s for us to focus on our reality for the sake of survival.
I cannot show you this realm exists, for we do not have the eyes to see it. It is something you must find a connection with in your spirit. All I can do for you is to search for It, I cannot give it to you.
Temporarily, but my spirit will never find refuge in a computer, only a body that is tailored for it. One comaptable to house it.
My consciousness and memories do take a trip in a digitized webway. But they end up in another human body in control of a organic mind. It’s just a discomfort I must endure in order to be a Capsuleer.
If these Driffters purely live within machinary and computers. If they’re nothing more and infomorphs. Then that only tells me once again that they’re not human.
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Perhaps. But even so, that doesn’t make it unnatural, as you’ve claimed: “There’s nothing slightly natural about these Drifters”, eh?
Debunk? No, not at all. Simply that if you’re going to assert the spiritual has to be taken into account, then first, you must prove there is a spiritual to take into account. Myself, I prefer to leave matters of faith… to faith, and not make claims about them.
Your memories, right now, exist in a digitized form in a computer, in case you get shot in the head while… in the head, perhaps. That copy could be walking around right now, nice and active, except for CONCORD’s rules prohibiting it. If it did, it would no doubt insist is has just as much of a spirit as you… to your face, even.
You are nothing more than an infomorph. You can… and in at least some form, do, right now, exist purely within machinery and computers.
But you’re still human. And natural. Because all artifice is a product of nature.
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Well, you know, your body is simply kind of a meat-shell for you to interact with the physical world. You know, simply an interface between the ship and the actual you.
The you that traverses the network each time you get shot to bits, is read, written, re-written, updated and probably backed up just in case.
There’s nothing “unnatural” about Drifters, there’s nothing “unholy”, we know sod all about what’s going inside of that brain - but, were we to find out, I suspect we’d learn a lot.
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Natural
Nature
The Jovians forced their own evolution though dangerous scientific procedures. Only nature should be granted such influence to evolve and change us. This ensures our survival.
The Jovians took matters into their own hands thinking their idea of what humanity should be and…look where they ended up.
Now why would I go and dismiss reality? I suppose only in a fantasy world its possible to see these freaks as equals…
They call it spiritual enlightenment for a reason. I’ve taken complete comfort and confidence in the reality of our existence. Looking past the cover of the book to discover the world beyond after the death of a normal man.
If it be of any interest, the Raata Zaibatsu is home to the Windchime Order. Scholars who are more proficient in the philosophy and knowledge of Wayism than i am. I could put you in contact with some of the revered members, maybe hear them out and indulge in our practices. The teaches here are liberated from the nationalistic chockehold the Caldari State has on it. We won’t turn anyway any human who wish to attune with nature itself.
I have no love or concern for CONCORD’s rules. This why I only head back to the mainland of Empire space to trade. Then I’m back out in the badlands and out of their influence…Well, with the sockets they still got a grip. But a loose one out in the outer regions.
But if a second clone of me was to be walking around. I’d sense some "fracture’ occurring with my spirit. Yet, I feel whole…I have no reason to assume a copy is around.
If there was one it would just be a matter of him killing me, or me killing him. The fracture would cease at that point; and be a interesting test of skill against myself.
If he is me and holds the same line of thinking as you sat, there shouldn’t be any misunderstandings when we come face to face.
We’d know what to do…
Yes, my body can interact with this world in many ways. It can enable me to weild tools such as a starship.
A starship is just that, a tool. One that can be used as extension of myself to accomplish different feats.
But it is still just a tool. My body, my form as s human is my natural state.
So I have memories on file. The real me is my spirit, my soul and flame. No computer can re-write that.
We’d simply learn of whatever twisted ideas the creators of these monsters wanted them to think. They have displayed zero sense of individuality or personality. They come off as nothing more than rogue drones wearing human flesh.
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Or, perhaps, we would find a way to improve ourselves. Knowledge is knowledge, regardless of its origins.
That we are, by far, the pinnacle of form in comparison to most humans should never stop us from striving to improve.
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Question: When the current you get’s turned into a meat popsicle, how does your ‘Soul’ find your new you re-written from digital traffic? If your soul isn’t in the data, how does it get to your new brain? And where does your soul reside in the short time it takes for the new brain to be written?
I’d qute like to know what that is as it might give some good ideas as to the Infomorph behind them, and it’s motivations. As for monsters I ask again, where is the difference between their reused flesh reinforced with implants and inorganic material, and ours? There is nothing ‘natural’ about our existence in the sense of standard evolution. We have crafted ourselves thus, just as the Drifters have, in fact as Infomorphs we are probably more like the Drifters than our Baseliner friends in terms of physical existence.
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Precisely. Natural. Nature. When wasps make hives out of paper they create from wood pulp, that’s natural. When termites make terracotta mounds by excreting chemicals into the soil as they pack it, to harden it, that’s natural. Niche construction is a natural phenomenon. All of the actions animals engage in are natural. This includes when a bird uses a stone as an anvil to crack a mollusk, or when an ape uses a stick to get honey from a hive inside a tree trunk.
It also includes when we knapp flint knives. When we figure out how to make fire. When we learn to smelt ores. These are all things we do naturally. They are products of our minds, and our minds are the result of natural development. There’s no point where what we do stops being natural because we are a part of nature, and so a part of nature is doing it.
That includes what the Jovians did to themselves. That was nature, expressed through a natural action of natural human beings. You draw a line between nature and artifice that’s entirely imaginary, and completely false.
And yet, you know it only through your imagination. You can offer no empiricism that shows it to be true, only anecdote and aspirations, informed by the aspirations of others… no different than the Amarr, for example. And so you make assumptions. You add elements in that are not demanded by the observed data.
They call it spiritual enlightenment because nobody’s going to tell someone else ‘hey, I just totally achieved self-delusion!’
I’m afraid that’s not true. You abide by CONCORD’s rules all the time. Tell me, have you ever even seen the fleets of Interbus baseliner shuttles and shipping that cris-crosses through all of Highsec and lowsec more or less constantly? Do you understand that your continued function as a capsuleer is due to adherance to CONCORD’s rules? That every cloning facility in New Eden adheres to those rules, even in stations constructed and owned by entities CONCORD labels as outlaws, like the Guristas and Blood Raiders?
The outer regions are no different. If you think that’s not the case: plant a flag. Lay claim to space without paying your rent to CONCORD. See if you can actually do it, or if you’re just a crackpot in a citadel, waiting for someone to kick it over, like Vaari.
Your body is just another tool your infomorph is using.
That thing you have no empirical way to demonstrate even exists… not even to yourself. All you have is faith, and a desperate need for it to be real. And, well, maybe an equally desperate fear that those things you kill… may just be you, in a thousand years.
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Well they would appear to be a few ‘personalities’ running many facets of themselves remotely at the same time. Imagine being able to multicast your mind’s wishes into a dozen copies of yourself at once. Or don’t, the thought is pretty damn scary where the average capsuleer is concerned.
I find it amusing and saddening in equal measure just how difficult some folks find accepting that we are no longer human as such. We have humanity in our reactions and motivations, and a consciousness born of human existence. We left being actually human behind the moment we pulled the trigger on our original biological selves though.
For better or worse we became something else entirely. How many of us would care if the pod in our ship simply housed a supercomputer capable of running our mind? How would we even know if this was the case, given that we would be being fed sensory input to tell us we had a body in exactly the same way that a real body would provide the information.
In my view the only thing that could be defined as a ‘soul’ is the unique set of memories and emotional responses each of us carries around. If we were to fire up two clones from the same cut of our brain they would have exactly the same ‘soul’ at the point they came into existence, but the very moment the brain received it’s first sensory input would be the moment those ‘souls’ diverged, became unique.
Imagine then that when one or both clones were lost the thoughts and experiences were then all merged back into the same single copy of you. You would become some kind of hybrid hive mind formed from multiple simultaneous experiences. Perhaps this is the nature of the Drifters, perhaps they are doing nothing more than accelerating their learning through multiple facets of themselves roaming the cluster. Perhaps they are trying to learn what it is to be ‘human’ by looking in all the wrong places.
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Oh snap, the Drifters are Saede from the future!
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I prefer to think of them as Valerie. It explains the idiotic things they do so well.
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Well, I mean, figuratively speaking. Remember when Saede & co launched that colony ship out of a wormhole? What if those people eventually landed somewhere, thousands of years ago, then found a way to traverse space and time and are now back to haunt the person that sent their ancestors on the longest journey? :tinfoil:
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rude.
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Sorry but I laughed out loud at this. People calling for the total annihilation of drifters are the utter majority, and you feel your views are threatened or, indeed by any margin, rare?
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