The Gray Fallacy is dangerous. It might very well be that Chakaid is lying and the queen is not. However, given the estimates of the Sisters of EVE, I do not think the truth lies in the middle of the queen’s or Chakaid’s numbers, but with the estimates of those working in service to the truth.
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In the initial day(s) of conflict before the Deathglow wore off, there likely weren’t any bystanders. I will accept that many of the rioters may have been innocent, though.
Given that they weren’t facing rational enemies, using maximum force seems totally justified to me right up until they had secured the safety of their queen. After the deathglow wore off (however long that took), maximum lethal force should have become more situational if Fayez gave by the book orders for ending a rebellion of this sort.
We certainly do not as a culture believe in merciful responses to rebellion, though, that is true. The question would be what actions in the midst of a drug fueled riot can actually be considered rebellion.
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I have no reason to trust the Queen any more than the lackey of the King. Both are likely lying through their teeth, though as said, it doesn’t really matter.
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Simple? Yes, I suppose deciding not to do our duty to our native land when it is disagreeable to us would be simple. You’re right. Not showing up would have been much simpler. Showing up, on the other hand, doing our duty despite wishing we could have been anywhere else, that was hard.
Actually, they have indicated that they would welcome help for their military forces.
If someone is trying to stop my family by killing them, then even if what my family is doing is wrong – I damn well stop the other person from killing my family.
I hate what the Khanid were doing. There’s a lot about what the Kingdom represents that I don’t agree with. Hell, there’s a lot of things the Empire does that I very fervently disagree with. The entire slavery thing, for one. But the Empire is my home, and I have sworn to defend it and its vassals.
When others invade that home, we can do naught else but take a stand.
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In the initial day(s) of conflict before the Deathglow wore off, millions in slave ghettos were being shelled by artillery. Millions. Do you really expect people to believe that millions of people were all actively rioting? That the Deathglow attacks were large enough to get 100% population saturation over that large an area?
Get real.
Completely setting aside the whole ‘slave ghettos means they’re already contained’ thing, the Queen was only on one planet. They were conducting these bombardments across multiple planets. And even just on Kahah III, the Queen’s location was known within a reasonable proximity: the 5th Uhlans garrison in Damaskh. So why use artillery? It’s not like using it to try to clear the area around the garrison wouldn’t run the risk of a mis-aimed shell (or just a malfunction) putting ordnance right onto the Queen’s head. And using it anywhere else wouldn’t help secure the Queen.
Artillery is not a Search & Rescue tool. It’s a ‘kill as many as you can without care about who gets caught in the splash radius’ tool.
Occasionally, it’d be nice if you stood for something other than the wanton incarceration, murder, abuse, and rape of trillions of people.
Maybe find a situation where you can take a stand on Lager vs Ale, or something.
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Lager is the urine of Molok.
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So you took a stand for the horrifying mass murder of millions of people, corralled into ghettos and shelled to bits and pieces. This was preferable to you, rather than some of these people possibly being able to fight off the mass murdering psychopath Khanids, and getting out.
For someone who says you’re not into the whole slavery thing, you are going to extreme lengths to have it at its worst inflicted upon as many as possible.
You don’t get to have it both ways. Your words and your actions are so far apart from each other, there can be no trusting them.
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I do.
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Yea. I personally especially recommend this bit:
“[T]he rebel forces on Kahah III, now identifying themselves as the Kahah Free Army, and reportedly joined by a small number of Kahah militia defectors, have continued to carry out insurgent attacks across the planet.”
Though of course also the independent humanitarian casualty estimates of 2-9 million are relevant to this discussion.
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Do you realize how much you’ve just devalued your words and reputation by this tiny statement?
By caring about what my tribeswoman has to say?
Like I give an effing damn about opinions of people in whose eyes that is a problem.
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Comments like that disrupt conversation, derail, cause people to reply out of anger instead of reason. People whom you are speaking against bring into the discussion ideas, their own opinions, disregarding how strong they are, right or wrong. And you? Look what you’ve brought so far. You shall be ashamed, Tyrel Toov.
I would like to offer everyone to deescalate a bit. Stop making fights when they are not necessary. The situation on Kahah develops without our “advices”, disregarding who will tune in, Minmatar, Amarr, Khanid, or even Caldari - if they’re just capsuleers. It can’t be helped now. It will go as it goes. We can offer each other hands and we can do what we can - without starting fights, without adding fuel to the flame.
Minmatar, Amarr, you are all same people. You shouldn’t be arguing, your common enemy is Blood Raiders, not you each other! If you want to help Kahah, then help those who survived it. Bring in some goods. Instead of weapons - bring medicaments. Instead of soldiers - bring doctors. Instead of accusing each other, in whatever it is, in intervention, in terrorism, in being heathens, in being murderers, genocidists, and so on and so on - just bring food to people.
Always keep in mind, you can’t help the dead, you can help those who are alive. And the best help you can offer them, is not being a cause of conflict escalation that can again put their lives at risk.
Actually, no, we’re not.
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Must… resist… Will save failed…
You just summed up what Diana Kim does in every thread she posts in. She shits up every thread she takes part in and every thread she starts is inflammatory trolling and racial supremacy crap. I honestly don’t see why we should tolerate her constant hatespeech, misdirection and generally repulsive personality for year after year.
Of course there is always capsuleers unaware of her sordid past and wonder why is everyone so mean to her, but truth always comes out. I’m bloody tired of her crap and hair-trigger mentality, so is just about everyone else. For the millionth time I urge that nobody interacts with her, though I acknowledge she is so infuriatingly stupid and inflammatorily racist it is hard to resist.
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No, I shall not. Unlike Kim, I don’t have the misguided belief that every topic needs my input. Especially when people like Miz and Arrendis do a sufficient job of summing up my feelings on the matter. Kim, on the other had, can’t seem to keep her mouth shut about anyone or anything that looks like a good opportunity to spread her particular brand of xenophobia.
Though we should move any further discussion on this matter to the “off topic” thread.
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As for the rest of your comment, it’s hard to help survivors when the Amarr are quite adamant about not leaving any. That’s why the guns went down first.
The fact that they hate the blooders as well is moot. As is the fact that they may have kicked this whole thing off. It wasn’t Blood Raiders who were dropping artillery on the slave population, was it? Nope, it was the amarr.
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What guns??? We didn’t send anything. Yep, nothing at all…
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There were multiple independent parties sending small stealth units before the attempt of mass-landing where whole freaking show blew up.
Not that I won’t deny having been personally involved or indeed possessing any knowledge of insertion points whatsoever, and not that I expect they managed to turn the tide much… but yes, the guns went down first, and no, de-escalating the Free Kahah Army is not really what’s in the minds of most people of the free Tribes.
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Ahh, in general. Thought he was referring to us (Corp)…
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In that same logic, the Caldari and Gallante have the Guristas and thus are the same people. From my experience they are nothing alike buts that’s humble opinion.
When I took missions from the RSS and from my tribe I generally fought Angel Cartel and Imperial Navy ships. If a common enemy mattered then Sansha and the Drifters would have brought cluster wide peace. They certainly did not. A mutual enemy doesn’t make us remotely the same.
The Amarr, with such practices as slavery which the rest of the cluster deems barbaric, I don’t understand who they are like. Personally “the Gallante, Caldari, and Matari are the same people” would be a more truthful statement, but even that is wrong.
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