It’s not a quote.
I don’t think op understands that bomber’s would murder his ship in null if these changed existed xD Bombers would be the most broken ship in the game.
Torps could use a bit of basic range increase and and the “OP” hulls can have one of their range bonuses tweaked to retain status quo. And i’m not talking about doubling but an increase from 9km to 12 or 13.5 is not unwarranted.
1 Like
The raven isn’t going to lose it’s 50% bonus though. It’s a caldari staple.
And that means torp ranges of 40-50km before mods. This is a short range weapon, and one with huge damage potential. It’s not exactly like scorch which loses both damage and tracking to get ~70km range on an apoc.
Torps don’t need more range than hams and torp boats aren’t exactly struggling to reach their targets are they?
I completely disagree with you. Caldari are all about fighting at range, that’s why they have range bonuses for Railguns and Missiles on most of their ships. If we increased base range by 50% then yes we could reduce the Stealth Bombers’ range bonus to compensate. But I don’t think a Torp Raven/Golem/Scorpion/Widow with a base range of 40-50km before mods is overpowered at all. At that range you still have slow torpedoes that take time to reach their targets, and most sub-battleship class pvp ships with a MWD can do a good job of trying to outrun torpedoes to reduce their dps.
Also, please think about the other Race’s battleships that this would benefit. Torpedoes would now be a viable weapon for other battleships to fit, especially the Typhoon, which could start to use them effectively from longer range while it kites its targets with Artillery too.
So… No, I do not think a range boost would make torpedoes overpowered, but it actually would make more torp fittings viable for other battleships in pvp situations. Which would make the game more Fun 
I agree that torps are one of the worst weapon system right now.
a Torp fitted raven has 31km range. with the 50% bonus. With 3 BC it reaches 908 paper DPS, with 338m sig radius and 106m/s speed.
Versus a core baron (140m/s and 360m) that means 80.6% base application with FACTION ammo, I’m not talking about T2 ! That means 732 applied DPS at 31 km range. versus a PVE battleship.
If I go javelin that’s 46km range and 711*0.8 = 573 DPS
Now if I go cruise + CN ammo I have 651 DPS with 248m and 104m/s. Against the same rat it’s gonna deal 100% application, so 651 DPS, at 110 km. compared to torpedo it’s a loss of 11% DPS for a gain of 254% range.
Now you may think “yeah vs smaller ships they have same DPS”.
Well, no. Because of the range the cruise ships can fit rigor, painter, that increase the actual DPS. Going fury on raven is not an issue. The torpedo fit needs to have a correct tank.
The only benefit of torpedo is to be within grappler range. But then, the issue is more the sig than the speed. The DPS/sig (dps applied on a target depending on its sig) is capped at 2.68 for CN torpedo. vs a 130m cruiser you are limited to 350 DPS, 490 with a painter.
Replace the painter by a webifier (assuming you have a scram) and any close range turret will have almost perfect application.
So when is torpedo BS better than turret BS ? never(okay, maybe if you are shooting a big target and can’t afford to use a leshak/vindi/rattler). When is it better than cruise BS ? only when going 222. That’s not possible in pve(because sustained damage need a lot more tank than in pvp).
As of the modifications : Yes you need to prevent things from being OP. I think if raven went 80km that would be OP. 50km range on torps would be okayish(IMO again). That’s a gain of 60% range on the torps. Of course that mean SB should not reach high values either but … with 90km targeting range is that really an issue ?
Yes, agreed. A 50% or even 60% torpedo range boost would be acceptable, even if CCP doesn’t touch the Explosion Velocity I moaned about in my opening post 
As it stands I am only able to get 50km range on my Rage Torpedoes in my Golem because I fitted full Tech2 Range Rigging, and then added 3 Missile Guidance Computers with range scripts. And I could only do that because I only have a 2-slot shield tank. Which was itself only possible because I took the time to train Marauders to lvl 5. And I have to sacrifice damage application to do that range. It’s a bit silly.
Torpedoes have been a topic several times in the forums over the years, with sooo many people complaining about the range for what is supposed to be a battleship-class weapon. I will try and link a few of these discussions in the opening post for everyone.
range mods are stack penalized. Put rigor in those mids.
On the other hand, you should not balance against T2 ammos. rage is supposed to be very low range while the other T2 is supposed to be half range, better application, worse DPS than long-range guns- in reality it’s just plainfully worse.
IMO the real issue on torps is their application. All other guns have BETTER applied DPS on close range than long range. it’s in the range of +30% DPS (with same tracking*range) when going close range. dps/sig of torp is 2.68 while dps/sig of cruise is 2.625 . Torps DPS/sig should be around 3.35, that is a reduction of sig by 20%.
It was just an example, I should have said. My typical combination is 1 range, 2 rigor script. But I do use different combinations depending on the situation. I might use 3 range scripts if there is a structure far away that I want to kill with rage torps for example. I would also switch to 3 rigor scripts when I want to get rid of the all the frigates.
precision.
I made a mistake, I meant put rigors in those rigs, not mids. (T2 of course)
I’d love to see some torpedo buffs that don’t affect stealth bombers. Maybe paired with stealth bomber nerfs to keep them the same as they are now but making our battleship torpedo launchers better.
since bombers have a 50% reduction in torpedo radius, with a 20% reduction in torpedo base sig radius, their bonus needs to be changed from 10%(per level) to 7.5%(per level) to have exact same DPS on same target.
If we give +50% range in torps, we just need to remove the bombers’ bonus to torpedo flight time
proposal :
- all torpedoes signature radius reduced by 20%
- all torpedoes flight time increased by 50%
- smart bomber bonus from racial frigate level changed to
- 7.5% bonus (per level) reduction in torpedo signature (was 10%)
- 20% bonus(per level) to torpedo max velocity (unchanged)
- 0% bonus (per level) increase in torpedo flight time (removed, was 10%)
1 Like
Oh and also make sure HAW torps don’t benefit!
And they will continue to do so.
What do you think the effective range and damage of blasters, auto’s and pulse lasers are? Like i said before, try some non-missiles weapons before you knock torps.
You cant.
Range and application is dictated by the missile. You could only modify the phoenix or levi.
I clearly have tried other weapons besides Torpedoes and Missiles. You have no evidence that I haven’t. I still think Torpedoes are under-ranged, and given that fewer people use them in PvP or PvE relative to Cruise Missiles, I am right. I don’t mind people disagreeing with me and adding value to the discussion, but comments along the lines of ‘Go and try some other weapons because you obviously are not experienced’ is uncalled for. If you feel the need to make these types of posts, then you must be insecure.
If you are not going to make constructive comments, then please find another thread to post in, you Rude Patronising Troll.
1 Like
Can’t prove a negative.
But you’re posting and expectations suggest to me that you’re so focused on missiles that you haven’t or can’t consider the negatives of turrets. Like the expectation that large turrets are effective against small targets. And now I’m doubting you appreciate their damage over range.
I believe you are approaching this topic from a pve point of view rather than a pvp point of view. And yes pvp balance is more important than pve balance.
My comments are as valid as yours. Don’t be such a snowflake. I can criticise your judgement and where i think it comes from. If you are some kind of all-weapon-using pro, i just don’t believe it. I’m generally resistant to change unless i can see value in it.
Torps may be less used, especially in pve (but long range weapons generally are preferred for all types in pve). In pvp however, I’m willing to bet their lack of use comes from poor application rather than low range.
then provide useful comment instead of personal aggression.
Making judgemental arguments about the speaker is “ad hominem”, it means you have NO argument on the topic. “You should try” implies the speaker speaks before he tries and it’s a personal agression.
I don’t claim my opinion in the topic makes any sense. I even agree that IMO the issue is torpedo sig not torpedo distance.
If you want to make a point then take the effort to make a correct valuation of your argument.
Otherwise it’s an empty, aggressive, useless post that only makes everybody feel the forum has became a waste of time - because of you.
ACs are more preferred over Arty in PvE (except incursions), Blasters over rails except for very few hulls, Pulses over Beams (because Scorch), HAMLs over HMLs in many cases. What kind of PvE are you talking about?
Cruise over Torps because of range and application advantage.
IMO only the mach/cyna make the AC really interesting compared to arty (and their humongous pwr usage)