He’s clearly not. Look at the sleepers. Sure, they’re a bunch of infomorphs existing, near as we can tell, in entirely virtual environments. And within those environments, they’re individuals. But what if everything in those environments were constructed in a way that individual efforts inside contribute to the understanding of a singular, group effort on the outside? Tiny bits of external problems, presented as allegory to individual minds on the inside in applicable situations, become coordinated by the central system running the virtual environment, and then applied externally again.
Externally, that’d present as a hive-mind. We just don’t see the Sleepers as one because their system, to our knowledge, hasn’t actually attempted to do anything with an external focus.
Oh-- just to mention, pilots? “Extirpation” so far mostly seems to mean just kicking somebody out of the Abyss (usually by blowing them up). We haven’t seen Triglavian forrays into K or J-space, I don’t think? It’s not clear whether the Triglavians would pursue their enemies further once their territory’s secure.
Basically, it seems like they’re trying to kick intruders out of their home and would like help, but aren’t sure how much help we’ll be. If we “prove” ourselves … well, I’ve now built every existing kind of Triglavian ship other than the ones from the Alliance Tournament, and have blueprints for more. The rewards are kind of substantial.
Didn’t a “triglavian data worm” recently propagate through the entire GalNet? That also overrided some CONCORD restrictions? I would say there is at least a probability that they indeed do have access to more than just the advertisement channel. Just saying.
One question I have: other than that one ship Orveg Drust captured, have we ever seen them leave the Abyss? We haven’t, right?
At this point, with their declaration that their ancient domains are lost to them, I’m wondering whether they even can leave.
(Also all this hacking’s given me a new theory about why CONCORD was worried about “contamination”: maybe Abyss-diving capsuleers are the vectors for all this data mischief the Triglavians have been getting up to? Just make sure you include some malware on some of the artifacts the visitor collects, or maybe infect the ship directly somehow or even like a personal data device on board, and wait.)
I can’t recall any reports of Triglavian ships outside the Abyss. Other than the ones being flown by capsuleers, naturally.
Hence my concern that Oveg might be screwing things up, diplomatically.
And… I’m not sure about the ancient domains being lost meaning they can’t leave the Abyss. Their ships can leave after all.
Perhaps the Drifters found a way to close the portals to Abyssal space. Or did something else, that collapsed the abyssal space in the ancient domains. The domains being lost to them could just mean inaccessible, but it could also mean the ancient domains no longer exist.
Something pretty heinous anyway seems to have happened, a long time ago, that the Triglavians gave them the name of ancient enemy.
One last thought though… These Triglavians say they represent the “Convocation of Triglav Outside The Struggle”.
What even is “The Struggle” ?
However, logically, if these Triglavians are outside the “Struggle”, then there probably exists Triglavian inside the “Struggle”.
Is “The Struggle”, the abyssal proving grounds ? i.e. these Triglavians aren’t speaking for the Triglavians that capsuleers will be shooting at when the capsuleers go abyss diving ?
Because it seems a bit weird, if they’re asking for help, that people have to prove they’re capable of helping, by shooting the people who are asking for their help.
From all the info so far, the meaning behind “the struggle” I lean towards most strongly is that of friction between the Clades, as well as their challenges within their environment. The CTOS obviously acts as a cooperative decision-maker for their race as a whole, especially during the sort of times they’re in now - I’d readily compare this dynamic to the Minmatar, with their very independent Tribes cooperating for the good of their people as a whole through the Tribal Council.
Depends on the worm. Depends on the payload of said worm. Depends on how many systems were compromised by said worm. So far the CRC did not offer much in terms of transparency, and it’s not really all that surprising.
While you have a point here Aria, we do not know much regarding the scope of the conflict or the origins of it.
One could make the case, for instance, that given the ancience of the Vigilant Tyrannos (and their supposed links to the Tyrants) along with a suspicion of links between the Talocan and Triglavian Collective (…last I heard just basing on parts of ship designs, but I am lately out of date) we are dealing with quite an old war.
Regardless, the whole case does open a few interesting cans of worms in regards to the mysteries of Talocan, Sleeper and Jove civilizations in the past.
The Struggle could be the Abyssal deadspace regions, in that its difficult to survive in there. I don’t for one minute think that their entire culture lives there. In which case Outside the Struggle is the Triglav Domain, Inside the Struggle is what we call the Abyss, unless they consider the Abyss to be part of their Domain. That could indicate that Sansha and Drifters have penetrated the Triglav homelands, a good reason for them to look for alliances. As Uriel says, it could be that groups of Triglav are actively competing to prove ideas, with the rest of Triglav, Outside, implementing proven ideas. The other option is that they regard New Eden as the Struggle, and differentiate because they have agents Inside it. We know they must have had some agents in New Eden to hack the network, we don’t know how long they have been observing us. It was a similar case with the Jove. Maybe they even utilised parts of the Jovian network as a backdoor.
I kinda think the ‘Ancient Domains’ are the old Jove space. The Drifts are the ‘ancient enemy’ after all. Seems to all hearken back to the breakup of the… second? Jove empire.
She’s a fanatic if I’ve ever seen one. I suspect should the situation progress beyond her just blapping a few for a crusade, the Directorate will make a much more thoughtful decision.
That reminds me… @Makoto_Priano - whatever happened to all those trig databases you guys had? I might know ‘someone’ looking to bait a drifter fleet out.