Okay so we agree that a developer presented the findings of a study addressing the old carebear concern that ganking is bad for new player retention, and he said this:
So glad we could clear this up and come to an amicable agreement, Anderson. I’m gonna let you sperg whatever you’re gonna sperg, then wait for someone else to respond to for a while. These forum mods have the odd tendency to close a thread if the same 2 or 3 people resond to each other for too long, and this thread is too much fun!
You’re citing something that happened years ago which is no longer relevant. You’re also presenting it completely out of context. In fact that whole CCP Rise introduction was for a new NPE which only pertained to new players who had 30 days or less in the game. Of course he’s gonna say that crap because most new players probably quit the game within a week, let alone actually leave the starter system. More than likely only 1% of those new players actually took the time to answer CCP’s question form anyway.
Regardless of that, CCP did a recent 7 week study on new player retention which is explained in CCP Hilmar’s 2019 ‘Beyond The Friendship Machine’ presentation. I highly urge you to view it, especially the part about the magic moment which makes your assertions completely incorrect.
Fact = 50% of new player registrations don’t even log into the game.
Fact = 90% of new players quit within a week after logging into the game.
Fact = 2.4% of new players still play the game after 90 days.
An study from 2015 suggests that these aren’t unusual figures and are reflected across the F2P segment of the MMO market; in some ways they actually appear to be better than average. This study is also referenced in an article from June of this year.
Early retention drop off
Among players who start playing a free-to-play MMO during the month of its initial release, the percentage that play on the Nth day after their initial login drops substantially. Specifically, 83% of players who log in for the first time in the same month as the game’s release will log on the following day. As time progresses, retention suffers as only 20% of players who log in for the first time during launch month will log on 30 days later. However, when users start playing twelve months after launch, the percentage that play on the Nth day falls even faster. Roughly one-third of players (35%) who log in for the first time one year after launch will log on the next day and only 3% will log on after 30 days.
MMO retention is highest among players that joined the game during its initial launch period.
Stabilization and dedicated late arrivals
For free-to-play MMOs we see stabilization occurring generally 24 months after release, as this is a period in which the quality of newly arriving players improves. Players that start playing at this time are generally introduced by word-of-mouth or have made the decision to join after more careful consideration rather than trying the game out of boredom or serendipity. Consequently, retention among these late arrivals skews higher, with roughly 40% of users logging on one day after their first login and 2% of them returning on the 30th day after they first log in. This percentage drops further when looking at a longer time frame, such as 90, 180 or even 540 days, as pictured below.
Bearing in mind that the MMO market in general is currently seen as being in decline and has been for some time. I don’t think Eve is doing too badly with the retention of those who actually make it to first login, with the rate being about 4% after 30 days and 2.5% after 90 days; especially when you consider that CCP changed the product model to a “freemium” one nearly 3 years ago.
The only figures that can be considered low are the number of people who actually log in after registering and those who log in during week 1 after initial log in.
My Stats prof had some words of advice for us during our last week of class many years ago…
Statistics and politics are some of the best fields to go into since you can take any data set or opinion poll and make it say what you want it to say, not by changing the data, but how the data is interpreted.
And you are never wrong even when what you “proved” turns out to be incorrect in that instance since it’s only probabilities and percentages of what may be true, not what is true.
AFAIK, CCP never released the data to support their analysis, only the analysis itself, and trusting that is like trusting your local greasy politician.
Yeah I’m sure CCP is fully aware that ganking is damaging their bottom line, they are just hiding that fact because they want their business to do badly.
CCP never actually listed a causation, just some interesting data points they found looking at things, without any comment on what they meant. So… it’s fairly trustable that they found those data points.
It’s players who are trying to spin doctor those data points into something that they aren’t.
No, because ganking is part of the game, the onus is on CCP is to manage it properly so it is an interesting feature and not some mindless easy to do turn off.
At this point I think that CCP has the balance right, the no consequence ability to effectively point someones freighter, JF or Orca in hisec for as long as you wanted has ended. Mining ships have choices in terms of yield and tank, same is true of haulers that you can fit tank. There is the right balance between prey and hunter and any sensible person should not feel that the balance is out of kilter.
Of course you will just throw your normal one trick pony line at me, but ganking is properly balanced at this point in my view. Suck on that!
PS Just so you know, I saw your reply in someone’s reply , not sure why it showed past the block feature, but at least it gave me the opportunity to point out again that ganking at this point is balanced in Eve Online.
Some people here keep saying that new players who lose ships early in the game will stay playing verses those who don’t. That presentation claims that most new players who lose a ship early in the game are more likely to quit if they don’t have a social group to help understand and resupply.
Since this is about brand new players who are less than 30 days in the game, it’s a high probability that those new players don’t have a social support group within the game, hence the low amount for new player retention.
Sorry no. just a small bit of levity in the thread. I mean seriously Hilmar has the best icelandic accent. I love hearing him talk.
Pertaining to the thread, it is far too long for me to be able to jump in very well. But I do agree that new player retention is important. And the Trigs are a bit out of hand IMO.
As much as I understand what you mean, I think this is not very likely.
So far the only CODE. gankers I’ve sawn(only one, plasma death or something like that) was very civile in his discussion with new player he ganked. Also most of the community was nice enough to help a new bro get better. Though the 10M fee he is talking about may look like a ridiculous amount of money for a newbro and thus may prevent any hope to achieve anything in the game (what can I do when I get exorted more than I have and the guys who do that are not punished in the “high security” space ?)
I personally think that ganking newbros is a at loss for the gankers (costs a lot of time) But at the same time, if done correctly, is necessary to prepare them to the more ganks they could suffer later on.
Still a lot of other people have stupid arguments (like the previous liar) that can make the game look like a nest of retarded people who enjoy nothing but killing defenseless newbros. All in all, it’s not really the ganking, but the way people are socially hooked. IMO ganking newbro is fine.
