Just put the Arb on top of the Catalysts and neut them. They won’t have time to kill you if you got 1600mm plate and 1 kinetic + 1 thermal hardener + damage control + reactive + trimarks (heat on hardeners gg).
If I knew someone was using a pilgrim I’d bait you just for the killmail.
Think cheap. That’s the best anti gank tactic. Your rebuttal is akin to saying “tank a Skiff with Pith-A hardeners,” meanwhile the cost of those hardeners alone would attract every ganker from around the galaxy.
And how are they going to retaliate against crucifier that is 50km away?
A sensor damp.
Now come a little closer…
With an Arbitrator I can sit on top of the gankers and defend the target. If they shoot at my brick tank, the target lives. Their only chance is ECM RNG since damps dont’ matter at point blank range.
LOL. Obviously you’ve never done any of this and are merely theorising about it, and not even doing that right…
What do you mean “put the Arb on top of the Catalysts”? Either you’re there waiting for them to land, or you aren’t. If you are, you’re gonna be ganked yourself for sure, plate or no plate, LOL. And if you aren’t, then there is no way you’re gonna be able to do ■■■■ when they land. This is actually one of the reasons why the cov ops cloak on the Pilgrim does matter…
And what do you mean by “neut them”. A full rack of medium neuts in an Arbitrator is barely enough to neut a single cat provided it has lost some of the cap by itself already. Which is where the drain amount bonus of the Pilgrim does matter too, btw, but regardless, how do you expect to survive the rest of cats that you cannot neut in time? Do you think they’ll come to gank your Arbitrator with just 1 or 2 cats or what?
But wait, it gets better. You haven’t tried to actually fit an Arbitrator with both a full rack of medium neuts and a 1600mm plate, have you? Which leads us to yet another reason to pick a Pilgrim instead of an Arbitrator that I didn’t mention, namely the HUGE difference in PG fitting capabilities…
And then you’re ignoring the extra mid slot on the Pilgrim that’s relevant because we’re talking about doing TD here, remember?
No, it isn’t. You’re conflating victim and anti-ganker here. You have to think cheap if you expect you may be the victim, not otherwise.
But as I said, if you want to fly cheap, then yes, pick an Arbitrator instead of a Pilgrim, of course.
If they waste time on the Arb, the target will survive. An arb has 50k ehp with a plate and anti-hybrid hardeners (thermal/kinetic); 60k+ iwht overheat, and 70k with DCU and reactive +heat.
Typical miner trash, ignoring the fact that the argument against the validity of the kill is entirely in-character. CODE committed a crime and had a shootout with the police, some random bystander yelled in the general direction of the event and is now claiming credit for the success of the police. Anti-CODE are those idiots with AR15s doing “neighborhood watch patrols” and “militia training” while the actual police and military roll their eyes and wish they’d go home.
This is pretty much how wormhole ganks go. Throw a single Pontifex into that AG squad and the arb nearly breaks 100kehp (you can also use ev-600 neut drones in stead of t1 hammers).
No ganker is going to waste their time on an Arb, but they will be more than happy to kill your Pilgrim.
People park Dreks/Veds at optimal range on a wormhole, a cheap arb jumps in and starts the fight. You can learn from wormhole PvP how to forma proper and cost effective AG fleet in high sec.
What you Anti-gankers need a leader like me who has theorized and written the theses on every successful doctrine ever used in this game.
Speaking of Arbitrators, here is my latest thesis (still in rough draft and under debate):
The moment you use a T2 hull for AG (anti gank), you’re doing it wrong.
I’ve seen this AG argument so many times
Math is Math. If gankers pour 70k-100k damage into an Arb, they will fail. Gankers bring the minimum required of ships to kill their target (determined by math). If you really want to frusrate them, bring a two brick exeqs for armor reps and a brick prophecy running armor links.
The amount of escalation required to overcome you group of 2 arbs/2exeq/1proph would no longer make them gank profitable…remember all of this occurs in a CONCORD timeframe.
yet if you brought the T2 equiv: 2 Curses, 2 Oneiros, 1 Damnation, they will happily escalate to kill the 2 Curses and at least 1 Oneiros, since they would be super ISK positive.
I said MEDIUM neuts. Your fit uses SMALL neuts. You cannot neut a cat in one go with that Arbitrator, which I said is one of the reasons to pick the Pilgrim…
Knowing how WH (or any other type of PvP) works may be useful, but cannot be directly extrapolated to suicide ganking in high sec, the difference between using medium or small neuts being a good example of that…
If it may interfere with the gank in a meaningful way and they have enough gank toons to gank it in a cost effective way, they WILL gank it, just like they gank Procurers too.
But regardless, even if they don’t gank it, that Arbitrator is going to be noticeably less effective than a Pilgrim could, partly because of the inferior neuting capabilities and partly because of 1 less mid slot, which you need for TD.
Does that mean the Arbitrator is useless for AG? No, it simply cannot be as effective as a Pilgrim can be…
Except they can’t because I’m cloaked, remember?
Your only reason to prefer the Arbitrator over the Pilgrim appears to be that you think the Pilgrim would get ganked. You talk about the whole issue as if you would fly both ships the same way, but you wouldn’t, because the Arbitrator needs to be sitting next to the target all the time for everyone to see, whereas the Pilgrim may be cloaked anywhere, which allows you to do things completely differently in a much safer way, with the gankers not being able to know which target you’re guarding, if there happens to be more than one, or whether you’re guarding a target at all.
The range bonus for neuts on the Pilgrim allows me to be 20 Km away from the victim when I decloak and still be able to fully neut a cat. So in order for them to gank me, they would have to (1) expect me to be there waiting to decloak when they land, and either (2a) use ganking ships with a 20Km range and still enough DPS to gank me, or (2b) use one gang to gank the victim I’m guarding as bait and have another gang ready to land on top of me when I decloak.
Those situations can be dealt with when you know what you’re doing, making it very unlikely to be ganked, maybe at the expense of not decloaking if things look fishy, of course, but note that if I don’t decloak because I notice there is a second gang that could be ready to gank me, I’m effectively removing that whole gang from the target they’re ganking.
So TL;DR the cov ops cloak on the Pilgrim makes all the difference in this regard, allowing me to fly a more effective ship with a very small risk of being ganked in practice.
The last thing AG needs is yet another “leader” that hasn’t tried any of the things he theorises about…
I use not only T2, but T3 all the time…
Man, really… I told you from the very beginning that one of the reasons to pick the Pilgrim over the Arbitrator is the cov ops cloak. Of course I wouldn’t fly anything expensive that cannot fit a cov ops cloak for AG…
If you fit a full rack of med neuts, you can’t fit a good tank.
That’s how EvE works.
And these Gank/AG tactics are used in wormholes all the time, where Heavy Armor/EWAR/neuts are king.
Join Volta or Foxholers for some relevant PvP experience. Then apply it to High Sec AG.
If you’re in local, and I know you fly a Pilgrim, I’m bringing extra ships just for you. Either one Maulus just to damp and laugh at you, or 3-4 more Catalysts to destroy you, depending on my mood.
The moment you say “I’m going to use some ship at some range at or above 30km” I’m going to say “overheated damps, gg”
If you want a ship that can “counter” the damps, you’re going to have to sit in point blank range of the catalysts. At which point, use a T1 Arb.
If you want a full rack of Med neuts, drop the 1600mm plate and bring some t1 armor logi.
Try to use your own imagination to edit the builds I’m giving you. I can teach you how to fish if you want, or I can keep throwing you fish.
Man, this is the last time I reply to you in this thread.
THAT is precisely what I’m saying is one of the reasons to pick the Pilgrim over the Arbitrator. You repeating what I said is a reason to pick the Pilgrim does not make the Arbitrator a preferable choice.
Do some AG, which you’ve obviously never done, to see why that PvP experience, while of course useful, cannot be directly extrapolated to AG.
The game mechanics are the same, and hence a good understanding of those mechanics is very useful wherever that knowledge comes from, but the kind of situations under which you have to use them is not.
Which, again, if you do, are toons you could use for ganking, and are just not going to use for anything if I notice the threat and simply don’t decloak, thus effectively disabling them altogether without having to do a thing.
I said 20 Km… But regardless… Yes, of course you may bring extra toons to try to counter me one way or another… But you have to do that without even knowing whether I’m actually there, i.e. I’m making you bring additional toons by the mere fact of being in local…
In comparison, an Arbitrator sitting next to a potential target has to be there all the time, letting the ganker figure what to do about it, with absolute certainty that it is there and cannot be elsewhere…
In other words, use 2 toons to be able to do with an Arbitrator what a single toon can do flying a Pilgrim. What a great use of resources.
Are you sure you’re teaching me anything here? Not that I’d be unwilling to if you had something to say that I didn’t know, mind you, but really?
A Maulus with heat will bring your Pilgrim targeting range way under 10km.
You never specified exactly what you wanted from you Pilgrim or Arbiter.
Tell me exactly what you want, for what purpose, and I will show you that fit.
I gave you two fits:
1: Point blank brick Medium Neut + 3 small neuts + 5 neut drones., which neut a catalyst very quickly, and use it’s TD’s to bring other Cats under 500m blaster range (falloff included).
2: Point blank high hybrid resists (needs some logi love), 4 Med Neuts + 5 neut drones, whicch can neut two catalysts and with it’s TD’s take down the optimal range of other Catalysts to sub 500m.
What more could you possibly want from the Curse instead (or Pilgrim)? What could possibly justify the increase in cost? You’ll be damped under 10km targeting range by a single Maulus. If you bring friends to kill the Maulus, the second time around it will be a brick Celestis.
Gankers use T1 ships because they are cost effective. You need to think in terms of T1 ships as an AG player/group to also be cost effective.
Your Curse will be effective a maximum total of: 1 time, then you’ll be known in local for using T2 ships and you’ll have an alpha pilot assigned to teach some T1 damp lessons.
If I’m a ganker and I hear there’s 2 Brick Arbs, 2 brick Exeq and 1 Brick Celest and some T1 armor booster sitting point on the gate for AG activity, I’m gonna be in a bad mood. The AG team will always trade ISK efficent (with CONCORD assistance!) with that 5-6 man setup (I’d bring a Celestis simply to damp anything else using damps/ecm).
Not mention you got a great DRONE BALL from that comp.
Guys, you are talking about stopping ONE Catalyst, Talos, maybe two … this helps against Retriever gankers, but anything at the gates is either insta-dead by Tornado alpha, or you have to deal with 15-20 of those gank ships.
Also you don’t get paid for what you do, while gankers most often do it for profit. That’s why there are no fleets of anti-gankers roaming, and people are not committed to the AG course.
IMO the only working strategy with lasting effects (from own expierience) is loot denial either by ninja looting or killing the haulers.
JUst trying to tell him that his Curse will be countered by a single t1 Maulus lol.
If he wants to use neuts and TD’s, he can only do cost effectively in a brick fit Arbitrator at point blank.
That being said, if you sat at the Uedama gate with a team of 6 (2 arbs, 2 exeqs, 1 celestis, 1 Prophecy) you’d give the gankers something to think about.
Also he thinks that a “cloak” is useful on his Pilgrim…he forgets that he needs to decloak to fight. When he decloaks he gets hit with overheated Maulus damps.
… except he didn’t actually break character in this post?
Even then…
That’s not how it works. Correcting someones mistakes is not a “sociopath behavior”. Neither is “breaking character” (which he didn’t, but still) if you believe someones RP make no sense.
Funny how this post was liked by DMC. The dude is really ready to like and support every post against peoples he don’t like, even when it’s obvious BS, haha.
Actually, a Pilgrim may theoretically disable 3 cats (by neuting one and applying 2 tracking disruptors to another two), plus a 4th one after the first neuting cycle completes if neuts are then applied to another cat. I say in theory because the cats may partially counter the TD by approaching the target after landing, but then that requires more work than would be necessary otherwise for multiboxers too…
Not necessarily. Hauler gankers at the gates may use a variety of ships against which TD could also be useful. Even against Vexor gankers, you may use TD to disable both the ship and the sentries.
But regardless, if you want to make ganks fail, which is clearly what the OP wants to do, you need to figure ways to deal with big gank fleets too…
But that’s a different discussion from the one that originated the thread and from the one about what would be the best way to use TD for AG if you want to do that.
The OP is clearly interested in actually making ganks fail and saving the victim’s ship, against big gank fleets too, not just using loot denial as a deterrent. While that may not seem reasonable for a solo AG, it may make sense for them if they’re trying to build a large AG group…
There is one main difference between wormholes and suicide ganks: dps race. You have much more time in wormhole to gank and hence you don’t have to race for dps… it is crucial difference and the reason why small neuts are useless - you won’t neut even one cata with them before concord arrives, may as well not fit any neuts.
