Not really. Missiles are a bit chaotic and they have their own Skill tree. I pretty much simply accepted that.
Turrets are straightforward when it comes to SP training.
Missiles are a bit more zig-zag, but with some additional perks in between (Rapids, Booms).
Only if they’d introduce Capital Nanofibers with -75% Inertia and +100% Velocity.
LOL if i had injected the skills i wouldnt be saying anything. It takes a second to inject the skills, but a whole month to train them. This is why im saying this is unfair.
Also, nothing in this thread has pointed to a lack of game knowledge. I understand the game well enough. Youve confused me with the person who wanted to use her black ops jump capabilities to jump from hisec to hisec.
Sure, but they intentionally made the SP requirements less than their turret counterparts for two types of weapons, namely the Rocket and Torpedo. Even though Large energy/hybrid/projectiles take 1.2 million SP to skill to 5, they made it only 1 million SP for torpedoes while keeping the 1.2 million for cruise missiles. This actually balances out the time to skill Missiles, versus skilling Turrets, perfectly.
Not sure if this is sarcasm or not.
The time to train one skill tree vs another doesn’t have to be fair.
Drones, Missiles and Turrets have their unique ways.
I think it’s okay like it is.
You went specifically for T2 Capital Weapons and I already told you that for Missiles, you get the Rapid Torps (capital) “for free” when training Torpedos (subcapital). That’s pretty much my stance at looking at Capital Missiles vs Capital Turrets in terms of “fairness” of SP.
It’s ok as it is.
Sure, theres no necessity to making it fair. But thats the thing though, and its why i pointed out the difference between Torps and Cruise training amount. Its lower in Torps as if they were trying to balance it.
Considering how Torps and cruise missiles are separated and therefore need to be skilled separately, i dont see that as a “Free” weapon. Youre essentially paying for it by having to skill an additional 1.7 million SP to get T2 versions of both capital weapons. Which is a huge cost to pay, for a mere short range capital weapon.
Maybe XL Cruise for ultra wide range tactics in some situations. But generally, in large Dread engagements, missiles are not favorable, due to the delayed damage application. When it goes pop pop pop, you don’t want to be the one who does pooooo… dead before doing any damage.
Well, that and for a long time, armor was more favorable than sheilds, thanks to the Archon being the best at repping than almost all other carriers. Plus the fact that Phoenixes used to only get bonuses for a specific type of damage type, which really limited its DPS and made it stupidly obvious which type of weapon to defend against. Plus if i remember correctly, the XL missiles are also susceptible to smart bombs.
With all these negatives that used to exist, its sad to see that the Missile skills are so time-consuming.
Huh? What? Things were bad, now they’re better, but it’s still bad because it used to be bad, even though it’s good now?
You said Archon, you come from the past. Also, Archon is a Carrier, they don’t used Capital Turrets or Missiles. And Dreads in Siege can’t be remote-repped.
I think you can shorten it down to: it just is like it is. You didn’t present anything that makes me think Capital Missiles are at a disadvantage due to SP need.
Things were really really bad, now theyre not as bad, and its still not as good. This is the summary of the history of the Phoenix.
Dont confuse “better” with “Good”.
Yes, hence the word “Was”. As in, past tense.
Also, i was explaining why Phoenixes were not a mainstay to begin with. Most people will not want to skill up for a phoenix if they can already fly another dread or two, which means that we have less Phoenix pilots than other dreads, largely in part because of the past problems that the Phoenix suffered from. The past affects the future. The additional skill time for Torps and Cruise missiles doesnt help.
The phoenix is suffering due to its large disability that it used to have for a long time. Its gotten better, but its still not even comparable to the other dreads. This Skillpoint issue only compounds the problems the phoenix faces, and its popularity as a mainstay dread in fleets.
And siege doesnt last forever and ever.
K, thats your opinion. And yet you couldnt shoot down any of my objections to your arguments. So i guess theres that.
I did have a reply planned out but forgot by the time I read to the end of the thread.
Problem is with the Phoenix and also with Leviathan and their Gurista-counterparts…HAWs are meh on them. Its bad enough that they are shieldtank. But the rapid torps are…well…meh. Their only viable weapons are XL-Weapons.
A friend of mine likes to say: Caldari only have a FAX and half a dread…
Must not have been a very good reply, then.
I don’t remember any objections and I didn’t try to argue you away from your opinion. If you’ve decided it’s unfair in your opinion, it’s not my task you change your mind.
Sure, but considering the still relatively short time to train for the weapon systems, I don’t think this is the reason. In large Dread battles missiles are pretty much limited to ultra wide range role or they get popped before they can apply any damage.
That’s the reason why they aren’t used in large dread fleets. You siege up, pop pop pop until you either win or lose. Dreads in these situations are about applying as much damage as possible in the short time they usually survive.
So what? People don’t use FAXes to rep Dreads during combat.
Let me guess, “Should have posted it into Skill Discussion.”
I never said you tried to argue me away from my opinion.
But you did try to argue as to why you think its fair.
In the past, sure. But now, thanks to the added bonus sheild resists that make it harder to kill, generally the best thing to do is to target the squishier dreads first and then kill the phoenixes later. Its the same reason why the Revelations are getting killed later in the battle, and the moros/Nags are the first to die. It makes sense to kill the weaker dreads first and get their DPS off the field.
Again, not really. Its not like the missiles that get launched from the phoenix, evaporate as soon as the phoenix dies. Whatever missiles that are in flight, continue to fly and apply damage even after the ship that launches it is destroyed. The only reason i say “not really” is due to the fact that once your target is destroyed, then sure, the damage application is gone, but this is why most phoenix pilots will start shooting the secondary when the primary has enough damage applied to it.
So what? People still need reps when they get out of seige mode.
You might be right. But i dunno, i just wanted to rant, so i thought general would be a good place.
All this discussion about fairness. What alternate reality did I stumble into where everything in eve was suddenly fair and even?
Doesn’t help with that kinetic lock in place
You shouldn’t think of cruise as long range and torps as short range, they aren’t like rails and blasters, Rails long range bad short range, blasters good short range bad long range, Missiles have a max range and do the same damage any where from zero to max range and they don’t miss.
Unfairness is a human concept mate, weapons can’t see 'emselves as oppressed losers.