What are all these threads supposed to achieve?
If you don’t like a product, then stop consuming it. The bottom line is what drives CCP’s business decisions, not some random whine thread on an online forum.
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I’m dumbfounded by how many carebears think that the game can’t function without them, and that other players must necessarily be afraid of PvP, just like they are, while performing PvE-oriented activities.
How the hell would you know that there’s no market for that game? Sounds like you’re trying to speak for every gamer out there. Please don’t, thanks.
I am. Subbed two new accounts recently, and depending on how well the changes work, I might even roll some extra industrial characters on the empty slots in some of my accounts.
I’m looking forward to exploiting the opportunities that players like you leave behind.
Oh, and a friend decided to come back because of this most recent dev blog.
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I mean just look at the massively negative public opinion regarding these changes. It’s something like 15:1 against versus in favor. Yeah, I get it that a bunch of bears came out of the woodwork to pop their forum cherries to whinge and complain, but doesn’t anyone see the problem inherent in this? The game’s population is 90% risk-averse grinders. So of course the economy got ruined, and now CCP is implementing a bunch of changes that are going to hurt these players like hell.
This is truly representative of the problem of the commons. You people…You got too greedy, and the negative effects of your greed were always someone else’s problem. “Let the sociopaths club each other over the head, this is a sandbox, and I don’t want to PvP, and I’m entitled to my play style!” You sure are, pal. But because of your entitlement, you get this as a result. Maybe if you occasionally checked your carebear privilege, wiped the terror-sweat from your armpits, and whelped something into a gate camp by choice instead of by lack of skill and erroneous assumption, and helped drive economic demand by participating in your fair share of destruction, you wouldn’t be here today. 
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CCP is nerfing the industry side of the game because too many accounts are paid for by industry players who never actually pay RL to sub the account. CCP wants to make it harder for players so that the shift from ingame plexing shift to RL … That is the bottom line with these changes.
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Markets are determined by how many people are paying to do what kind of things. MMO market trends are well established with over 20 years of history. It doesn’t matter what you or I think of a game, it matters how many people pay for it and play in it. Observing markets trends isn’t about speaking for someone else, it’s about listening to what people are actually saying with dollars and their leisure time.
Wow, you really don’t think about the implications of what you’re saying, do you? If the games population is 90% risk-averse grinders, then the market is there for risk-averse grinding. If CCP’s own stats show that less than 15% of player logins involve PvP, then CCP’s own data shows PvP is a minority interest in EVE. Even if it is the ‘driving principle and engine’ of the game (which it is), it’s still a minority market in the overall game.
You don’t make your game successful by “hurting 90% of your players like hell” because you designed the game like amateurs 15 years and let all your mistakes sit and fester for over a decade. You don’t look at too much wealth buildup, notice 3/4 of your players are focused on building wealth, and then “fix” that by saying “Let’s just cripple wealth building”.
You don’t say “loss is not significant for wealthy veteran players so we’re going to make everything harder to create and more expensive and more difficult to manage” without realizing that your wealthy veteran players with in-game connections and corps can adapt to this and become even wealthier, while new players and solo/small corp players (the majority of the player base) will be crushed by it.
Please, you and CCP both - think beyond your immediate knee-jerk reactions and personal biases. A game is an ecosystem. You don’t look around and say “Hey, too many flowers here” and decide the answer is to wipe out honeybees and introduce kudzu. You need to learn how an entire ecosystem (or game design) works before you simply start uprooting entire patches of the economy.
It’s hard to believe so many people can’t think past their nose. News flash, bub: every sub is paid for in RL dollars. Either as a sub or as a Plex sale. There are no free Omega accounts. Every person who subs by Plex is in the long run generating more income for CCP than someone who pays a monthly sub.
The bottom line with these changes is CCP is just as short-sighted as you, and they think “Well there’s too much wealth and production in the game, therefore we will make wealth and production harder to do and that will fix things!”. It’s stupid and it’s short-sighted and it doesn’t even address the actual problem (the way they’re going about it). It will only allow the rich to get richer and set up barriers for all new players and smaller entities in the game. It’s the same stupidity that CCP has been dishing out for over a decade now.
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And what do you know about those trends? Full-loot survival games are one of the biggest sectors in the industry. Just because you clicked on a banner ad while making a micro-transaction purchase for Candy Crush and wound up here somehow doesn’t mean there’s no market for games with hardcore survival elements. Or what, are you going to say that players like me don’t exist? lmao
Then what you should be asking is for CCP to completely change EVE so that it’s compatible with PvE-grinding being the sole gameplay element, because right now, the game wouldn’t be functional if that were the case. Plenty of games do this already, so there’s lots of inspiration. But then again, you can just go and play one of those games, can’t you? And leave this one for those of us who prefer the kind of experience that EVE offers?
Then how do you fix it?
This game was an ecosystem in which players enjoyed a healthy balance of creation of destruction. It was an ecosystem in which industry and combat were intertwined, and no one even considered the possibility that one could be present without the other. It was an ecosystem in which players aspired to move on to more difficult content to be able to score power and riches. It was all of these things, until players like you magically started showing up in droves slightly over a decade ago, and discussions of strategy and excitement for upcoming features and additions turned into an incessant stream of nonconsensual PvP whines.
EVE was made to serve a particular niche of the game market, and it served it well, until players like you decided that this game was made for them, for some reason, even though it was obvious that it was entirely incompatible with your values.
So, pray tell, why are you here? What possessed you to get EVE, despite of its reputation? Or if you didn’t do your research before getting it, what possessed you to stay once you found out what kind of game it is?
You carebears are under the misconception that EVE was created as a fluffy bunnyland playground for your type back in the aughts, and became this harsh, unforgiving murder simulator as you “struggled” against CCP when they decided to “ruin” their product. Do you not know history, or are you merely intentionally ignorant of it? Because the exact opposite of this is true, and EVE came out the door as a survival MMO, only to be appropriated by your kind: the greedy and selfish safety crowd.
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Hmm I can certainly see that line of reasoning.
Though they could do a better job of making subs more attractive.
Both would be a good plan if thats what they want.
And thats not a comment on recent sub increases in various regions. Tbh Im suprised they waited so long. EvESubs are still a good price compared to the few other games still using the mechanism, but there’s no temptation atm to resub. Not for me anyway.
you do realize CCP makes more money off plex’ed accounts than subbed accounts yes? those players mulitboxing rorqs and buying skill injectors are making CCP a lot of money.
you could try finding the bottle neck minerals, mine those and make a ton of isk.
and yea, it’s been cheaper and easier for me to buy minerals in jita than to ever try to mine them.
Exactly! It’s a sandbox. let us be in the world that you created
Yeah, I don’t understand the problem at all. He can just sell his excess high sec ore and purchase his needed LS/NS ore to keep on producing. It doesn’t even seem like he needs to change his process.
Why are so many people bleeping about this?
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I see the rack of fanboi/staff members have “faithfully” tagged your post. Don’t worry. We know who they are, they’re so obvious. “I do abyssals, why don’t you, huh?” LOL.
After all, this game is all about ISK per hour, right? Has NOTHING to do with flying spaceships, RIGHT? LOL.
So I don’t get FLAGGED by the fanbois…here’s some OBVIOUS on topic:
I agree. Unsubbing teaches the only lesson money grubbers pay attention to.
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Much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Not much thought and rational argument. I give this thread a 6/10.
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Sorry, but full-loot survival games are a small but rapidly growing niche market generating a lot of buzz. If a game looks like it has potential, it will generate rapid but short term interest, much like EVE did up until about 2008. When you say “biggest sector”, apparently you’ve confused “less than 3% of the gaming market” with biggest.
“Players like you” existing is irrelevant. You’re taking the narrowest possible view of a game environment, and getting your facts wrong as well. Unless 40% or more of the player base is “like you” then you’re not the person the game should be designed around. The game should certainly have options to interest you and accommodate you, but no, you’re a niche market and not good for much more than adding a bit of spice to the game. Spice is nice, but you can’t make a meal out of it.
Also, your ad hominem attacks need more work. I’ve been playing EVE as long as you have, and I don’t even know what Candy Crush is - other than a name people with weak arguments and incorrect facts use to attempt insults at players whose points and facts are stronger.
Again, short-sighted, all wrapped up in your personal biases, and incorrect. I didn’t say PVE grinding should be the sole gameplay element, I even explicitly stated the PvP component is the driving force of the gameplay in EVE. Apparently you would rather debate against imaginary carebears in your head than address actual game design problems with EVE.
If 90% of your player base (your words) is risk-averse wealth grinders, then you don’t suddenly decide to cripple wealth grinding “to improve the game”. Those players simply will not, ever, become PvP players. All you are doing is throwing away 90% of your player base. If PvP is the driving engine of your game, you don’t make PvE “the sole gameplay element”. If “losses are not consequential to our super-wealthy veterans”, you don’t alter the production/creation/trade portion of the game in such a way that only experienced veteran players with corporate and alt resources can still manage it. That just makes the rich richer, and disadvantages new players and small entity/solo players.
You define the issues correctly and address them directly:
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ISK creation is not a result of “risk-averse carebears”. ISK creation is, and has been for a decade, the result of mass krabbing operations in Null Sec. With some additional input from Incursion farming although that’s much less of a problem. CCP could have tackled that issue 6+ years ago but they were afraid to, because the Null groups control too much of CCPs’ cash flow. The reason the Null groups control too much of CCPs’ cash flow is because that’s where 70% of the “wealth farming” occurs.
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Overproduction is also a result of the ridiculous setup of Null space and the mass farming of PI and anomalies and Rorquals and the fact that once you have your Sov space set up, there is little reason to fight any more. Thus, the most productive entities in the game have little reason to use or risk what they are producing except for small expenditures to relieve boredom while they build their next Titan.
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If the problem is “loss is not meaningful to the wealthy” then you put measures in place that directly affect the wealthy. You don’t change the production process of the entire game so that anyone who can’t afford a galaxy-spanning production chain (ie, the already wealthy) is crippled.
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If the problem is “not enough destruction”, then you don’t directly attack the assets and the gameplay of the “90% of grinders” in the game. They won’t become PvPers, they will just stop playing (and already have begun doing so, the stats are right there in the player numbers and economic report). If your goal is more destruction, you create systems that encourage combat, not discourage production.
Basically, the issue is you and CCP are looking at the surface of the problems in the game, and not spending any effort on addressing root causes. In terms of an ecosystem, you see beetles eating your trees, and you don’t like beetles, so your solution is to cut down the trees. After a while, you’ll have no trees, but you’ll still have the beetles.
Sorry but now you’re just indulging in “good ol’ days” fairy tales. EVE was just as broken back then, it simply didn’t have a lot of competition, a lot of areas were just being delved into, most players hadn’t figured all the mechanics to the nth degree. We didn’t have 50,000 Titans in the game and we weren’t regularly farming 2 Trillion ISK a month from Null krabbing and running Rorqual supermining operations. “Complaining players” didn’t drive the development or the direction of the game, CCP is famous for being almost completely out of touch with their player base.
It’s only shallow-thinking forumites who believe carebear whining drove game development. CCP pushed their ‘sandbox’ game specifically in the direction that netted them the most subs - into giant, massively profitable, massively productive Null farming alliances. That’s where all the ridiculous wealth accumulation, cap/supercap/titan proliferation, and stagnation has come from. Bad CCP design, not bad players wishing it into existence with their whining.
The only value I’ve stated is that EVE is poorly designed by CCP (not by players), and they are continuing to design it poorly to meet their own stated objectives. I started EVE in 2007 or so because certain aspects of it were interesting to me, and I still play it (very occasionally) now because some small aspects of it are still interesting. You might start paying more attention to the actual points you’re responding to, rather than railing against the imaginary horde of game-destroying carebears in your head.
Well, I guess if you’re going to be wrong, you might as well run hard with it. I’ve been playing for most of EVEs’ development and followed it for 2 years before even giving it a whirl. CCP designed and implemented the game - not the players, not the whiners, not the carebears. “The crowd” who have distorted the game out of all proportion is the Nullsec alliance crowd, and they simply did the things that were most sensible given CCPs ridiculously bad game design: they appropriated the most valuable space they could control, and they farmed the hell out of it. They fought hard for that space, they implemented 3rd-party software to help them manage it, they cobbled together giant alliances and fought massive multi-hundred thousand RL dollar battles to dominate it.
They did all the things that you say “EVE was created” for, but the end result is ridiculous wealth, meaningless loss, stagnation, boredom and CCP desperately trying to “fix” things with random, untargeted, and poorly considered changes. That’s all on CCP design, not carebears controlling the game.
CCP put many systems in place that eventually broke the game, because in the short term it caused a certain amount of buzz, activity and cash flow. They never stop to consider the long term consequences of their ‘next quarter’ thinking, and they aren’t doing it now.
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You’re delusional. The issue exists whether you are capable of wrapping your mind around the undesired changes or not.
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Do you realise if i pay cash for my sub CCP gets £7.50 a month but if i use isk and buy a plex from the in game market they get paid £17.00, which is best for CCP. So what is wrong with purchasing plex from the market.
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This is your free choice and stupidity if you complain about it.
You are way over complicating the process of shooting space rocks.
I can make anywhere between 60-70 mil per 20 minutes in a HAW dread ratting. my one cap pilot can yield the same ISK as 3-4 of youyr accounts per hour. You’re doing something wrong.
This is relevant because you’re talking about ISK per hour, when you have a capable cap pilot(s) for alternative ISK making.
This is not exclusive to EVE.
You can can afford to sustain 2 cap pilots and like 6 accounts? wut
This is EVE. if you cannot adapt, then you will fail. This has been the case for well over a decade.
I’m pretty sure Canada is at least a mostly free country, nobody is forcing you to spend 150 on EVE.
And by the sound sof it, if you only sustain 1-2 accounts and splurge the rest of your cash on straight PLEX, you’ll be quardoupling your typically ISK income at the same monthly rate.
Nah man
Take some of that money and check out skillshare. Editing skills are incredibly useful in all walks of life.
He should buy Plex and sell it and avoid the effort of his massive losses in indy. IF he can’t pay for a plex from his indy accounts what is the point?
What is the point of anything?
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The struggle is the point.
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