Unsubscribe if your not happy!

IF YOUR INDUSTRY or UNHAPPY.
Here’s my story and how I feel I just got benched until things settle down.

I have 7 industry accounts, some of them full indi, some are Indy /capital pilots but mainly Indy. It cost me 150 canadian a month

I have looked at the spread sheets , I have done the math and permanent or not, what am I supposed to do well you sort out the economics? Sit in station and chat…

I pay for all 7 of my accounts monthly. I don’t PLEX I don’t really pvp . I like mining and I like making stuff . Before all the nonsense these were my mining numbers.

With a max orca pilot and 4 max hulk minors ( why hulks because my risk vs reward is worth it) when i feel threatened I have skiffs ,I added another toon to run a hauler to make it a little quicker.

I trained all these skills to max I have a couple back up orca pilots and some Rorqual pilots.
My Rorqual pilots also fly carriers and two to four sub caps at max or close too it.

In high sec I can make about 80-120 million a belt. I trained max miners in all 7 of my toons for barges for both mining and ice. I paid my monthly’s and I mined rocks. It was cool to have my own mining crew. I paid my 22 buck canadian and trained my skills and saved my money to buy an Orca and T2 barges . I saved some more and trained more skills in haulers so I could sell ore at market for more. I got more toons and maxed reprocessing for every resource, my brother worked blueprints and trained miners and orcas , then we did PI.

We trained Into capital ships so we could get rig materials faster and move products.

We liked having to be in a game where we can create.

What ever happens now with this changes until your desired effect happens. I don’t get to play in the game I play in.

I’m not rich , so I can’t afford the ore. The reprocessing is less so it takes more to build the ships. So then I have to get my own ore.
I have to do 3 regions and move the ore to my destination and then get to work.

So now I’m flying ships that are making way less because we have to move more and we have to mine more to make the same things

So I can’t buy the minerals , I can’t get them for myself with out risking losses that I can’t replace basic equipment that now cost more because of import/export freighters.

So I have some JF skills , now the only way I can use my industry toons is jump freighter stuff , but wait they are extremely expensive and now the minerals to replace those are also more.

I am not a mega Corp I’m an eve industry player. All my toons get to sit and wait and do nothing while you “fix eve”.

You talk risk/reward well you don’t fly a mining ship going out to lose it !

You go out in it to make a profit against the risk of losing it.

You can’t tell me making my skiffS let alone my Rorquals that much more difficult and dependant on other players that my of my equipment is worth it. You guys have lost your minds.

All the minerals get trucked to jita and all the industry people work around there now???

My final rant is what else am I supposed to do with all my toons you just grounded ?

I can’t mine or make against the risk vs reward your offering until the market has a new normal…

You are calling this temporary so I’m supposed to pay you 150 bucks a month on accounts well I don’t mine , I can’t fly my ships because I can’t replace them , so I can fly a few small t1 frigate destroyer packs and do some ratting to be able to afford it I guess . Well I only need 1 toon to do that not 7.

Somewhere you guys forgot this was a sandbox game and 15 years later this is what it looks like and now you don’t like it.

You want more people fighting bigger ships make some short range jump able battleships that can have a single cap size weapon so Cap ships have something to be afraid of.

Make another battleship that moves quick like a cruiser and can support sub cap fleets with some heavier fire power but less hp and firepower than a regular battle ship.

Use your head CCP , people want to be in ships and get in fights , they want more fights and although a kill is a kill they want to fight other pvpers.

Fix the big fleet flights before you try and make this game playable on a browser.

I have never been more mad at a video game then now.

I spent the last few months mining saving and buying everything I needed only to find out I’d make so much less with so much more risk That by your own risk by reward motto you have risked me out of playing.

So I’m canceling 6 of my subscription. I only need 1 toon to rat and fly T1 frigates and I hope things change after that cause I’m pretty sure I’ll find another game where I can make ■■■■ and sell it eventually

My answer to you is I won’t continue to give you money to play a sandbox game that “ temporarily says my characters can’t play”

My only voice against you is to unsubscribe. I urge others to do the same.

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:popcorn: Another one. You get used to it after a while.

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You can make that in like an hour running Abyssals.

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That would require risk.

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ill remain subscribed because I’m super happy

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You’re*

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I’m struggling to understand the problem here. Please explain.

You are already shipping excess ore to market to sell. Now that there are ores that other people can’t mine in null and low sec, but you can in high sec, there will be plenty of buyers for your ore. You can use the isk from your sales to buy the ores that you can’t mine in high sec, and then you can haul them back to your home and use them to create things. It doesn’t even sound as if you are having to make any extra trips to do this.

Is it really that bad?

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The common theme of all of these threads is that the carebears are complaining that they have to actually play the game. As in they have to travel, perform a selection of activities, interact with both friendly and hostile players and NPCs, plan their training and spending, etc. etc. Meanwhile, what they actually want is an input/output reward mechanism simulator in which a monotonous action (input) results in a predictable, calculable reward (output).

To make an analogy, we can use the game of Monopoly as an example. Normal players want to roll dice, move their pieces, strategize their property ownership, trade with players, and so on. What these players want is to roll the dice, and then take a number of community chest cards in proportion to their roll, and repeat this process over and over again.

The justification provided is “this is a sandbox, so I should be able to play how I want,” even if the act of playing consists entirely of watching Netflix.

Yup, that about sums things up.

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The battleship in the vain of bombers is nice. The rest is a bloody smear of a dead horse.

I have 4 accounts currently subbed as Omega.

In 2 months 3 of those accounts will become Alpha. They won’t be re-subbed.

This account has 4 months left and I’ll continue to sub it as Omega since it’s my main.

Yeah, I’m not a happy camper…

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I am not here to tell anyone how to play EVE, do what you want but have some advice.

IMHO if you are subbing skill trained (mature) market or industrial toons you are doing something very wrong. The point in industry or market trading is to make ISK (or material wealth), the fact you are subbing them means they don’t even make enough ISK to fund themselves never mind your main or PVP chars.

People who sub a market or industrial char are the same as the minerals I mine are free brigade & likely are the same people. If you are subbing an industrial char and not even breaking even with SP farming, STOP. Instead use your irl $ & buy plex to purchase ISK off someone in game who is making a success of markets & industry, there are plenty of them.

Subscribed market accounts are just as silly as the minerals I mine are free brigade. I have a little sympathy for those who are cutting even with SP farming but tbh meh I can’t be bothered same with PI & data cores.

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You have 7 active accounts which have characters with Orcas, Rorquals, Hulks, carriers. How are you too poor to buy ore?

Sure, you may run out of ISK by buying ore, but that’s where selling ore comes into the game. You mine ores restricted in one region, trade it for ores restricted in another region and at the bottom line it’s as if you mined the ore yourself! (Except there will be some trading, hauling and a margin to the people willing to do the more risky mining involved).

No I’m not unsubscribing. But can I have your stuff?

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I dont understand why you would pay for all these accounts out of your wallet if you were making so much indy ISk before.

What is this isk for otherwise?

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The only constant is change. We’ve known that for at least 2500 years but it continues to take people by surprise. In my opinion, as an industrial player, the current initiative to bring the Eve economy back into balance is absolutely necessary and long overdue.

The absolute magnitude of the changes really doesn’t matter - it’s the relative impact that requires attention. Can CCP maintain a reasonably level playing field throughout this process? Are the challenges and opportunities I’m facing more or less the same as other players I’m competing with?

Nobody should be surprised by this - we’ve known we were at step 3 of a 5 step scarcity phase since March, and those of us who watch the market know we’ve been selling into a falling market for most of the past 6 months - not what you would expect if raw materials were in short supply and harder to make a profit - especially with relist fees.

Now, hopefully, scarcity will start to bite and we’ll have an opportunity to sell into a rising market - a lot more enjoyable!

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WTF is the point of that trolling question? The guy earns his money and spends it - it gives him a valid opinion.

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You can all rant at the industrials and miners, but you NEED them so you can fly your fancy ships, use those fancy weapons and have ammo for those fancy weapons.

Stop bitching at the industrialists, you may be happy now but what if all industry stops from now on? You will have to learn how to make all this yourself, and it takes time. You will have to mine it all yourself… I like to see your face when pvp’rs shoot you down.

I have a lot of accounts, but they are not all industrial. Most are pvp. I have been playing since day one, I learned every aspect… I can fight, I can mine, I can produce… all off it. But at some point constant fighting, constant wars gets tiresome… I am not alone being an retired old-timer… We want to enjoy retirement… my way of enjoying MY retirement is teaching new players how the game works… Let them make up their way of life and helping them. This change… is not good for a lot of new players.

Miners and Industrialist, to make a protest against this change… do what I and my corp did… Unsub from Omega… Go alpha. stop the mass production… let the game feel this is the line and its crossed.
We had enough, we want a better change, one that also benefits us.

I have unsubbed all my 3 main accounts, if I get banned for enticing this or endorcing or saying this… so be it… Once they noticed the massive decrease of subscriptions then they might see what they do is bad to eve or is killing eve.

I think lot of people will agree with me… If you are going to flame at me for stating my oppinion then you do not understand the feelings of many like those who do understand.

I love EVE dont get me wrong, I’ve barely said a word or posted anything in the last 17-18 years ive been playing… But I see this is affecting a lot of my friends, people I know, people I brought into the game, people I have been teaching the ways in eve. And i just cant bare watching this.

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During the Twitch stream a couple days ago where a few CCP folks were discussing this, one of them flat-out said that one of the goals is to make it so that one person/small corps can’t be ‘self sufficient’. I might have misunderstood his intent, but to me, they basically are going in a direction where one person/handful of people can’t ‘do everything’, trying to encourage/nudge us into working with others, interacting with others whether it be in a larger corp/alliance or on the marketplace.

So if you intend to remain 100% high-sec, you’re going to have to rely on folks working low/null sec now more than ever - but the inverse is true as well, they’ll need to do the same of high-sec industry - or so the plan seems to be. Obviously, larger corps/alliances will adapt - but with the small-time industry folks?

With change comes new opportunities, and new potential. When the dust settles, there may be opportunities even greater than what you have now. They kept alluding to more changes coming that will improve things, and though a lot of the playerbase doesn’t seem to trust them, I admit I am very curious to see where all this is heading, since the redistro is just one piece of a larger puzzle.

That said - if folks need to unsub for a bit to examine the fall-out - ain’t nothing wrong with that. It’s your money. :slight_smile:

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Two of my high-sec corporations are closing down… /sadface :frowning:

Of my own accounts:
Five high sec based omega accounts become alpha in a month
Four null based omega accounts become alpha by end of the year
I’ll probably keep one going (because shooting people in the face is still fun), but then I can plex that for years so not an issue :slight_smile:

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What did I say that invalidated his opinion?

Seems like the one looking for an emotional reaction is you, Mr Pot

Some people like to know more about a circumstance. Sorry that unlike you I dont already know everything.

I might even agree with him, but sure from your point of view obviously theres only two sides on the Forums, why would anyone want empathise with anyone else when they can just be argumentative?

Of course you’ll get the usual dogpile of players who can’t get all their anti-social tendencies worked out in game and so bring it to the the forums.

You’ll also get a few somewhat more valid answers that say “It’s EVE, adapt or die”.

The truth is, EVE is an MMO in the currently existing MMO market. There are some players, and apparently CCP agrees, who think a successful MMO can be built on this hook:

New Eden is a harsh and unforgiving world where everything you have is always at risk and if someone else has big enough toys to take it away from you, then just accept that it will be taken away. If you accumulate too much stuff, and other people aren’t taking your stuff away from you, then CCP will change the game rules and mechanics so your stuff will be taken away by NPCs instead.

CCP is apparently deluding themselves into thinking “if you destroy it, they will come”. The current MMO market is made up of about 50% PVE players, 30% builders/resource accumulators (those two overlap a bit) and about 20% PvP oriented players. Of that 20%, less than half are the type of ganker/player-killer/unfair fight PvPers that EVE seems to attract. (Numbers estimated from my own experience and various industry estimates over the years, I have no external factual reference for those.)

Yes, CCP has truly gotten themselves into a mess by ignoring basic game design principles for decades. The rich are now so rich that loss is meaningless, the production pipeline is so stable that EVE consistently produces 3 times more than it destroys, and it will be extremely difficult to put the wealth genie back in the box.

CCP looks at all their various mistakes over the years, and they should have come to the conclusion “we designed a lot of game mechanics really badly, and then we left them in a bad state for a dozen years, and now we have to fix it by learning or hiring the skills to design games very well”.

Instead the plan CCP has hit on is “the problems in the game are caused by the players playing the game wrong. We wanted a harsh, dog-eat-dog world where everyone struggles for resources and only the strong survive. Never mind that there’s no long-term market for that game, we want it. Now, since the interest for that game is too small, players from other markets (like PvE players and builder/harvester players) keep coming in to the game and paying us money and making the game work despite our bad design. So let’s screw over all those PvE players, all those builders, harvesters, and traders. Let’s blow up their assets, increase their fees, have NPCs chase them down and eliminate them. If we take our “sandbox” game and consistently change the rules and mechanics so there’s only one way to play, we can finally achieve the “combat sandbox” we desired: where you can play the game any way you want so long as it’s the way CCP wants you to.”

If you check the recent economic report, trading is down, prices on everything but minerals is falling, production is down, destruction is down, player numbers are falling despite summer being over, Covid and CCP running non-stop events.

So I have to agree with the OP. CCPs recent direction of “the floggings will continue until morale improves” is clearly damaging the game. Vote with your dollars and your subs, it’s the only thing they ever notice since player behaviour is clearly something they don’t understand. “Smash things until the game gets fixed” is a plan worthy of 5 year old. Lets get some adults running the show at CCP.

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