There’s the problem right there
Why does a bubble mod reduce mass anyway
A hic shouldn’t be doing 8k
A hic should not be able to fit through a frigate hole
A hic or any cruiser should not be able to fit a battleship sized mwd
I’m tired of ccp pandering to what is clearly a massive exploit you shouldn’t of been able to do in the first place.
Yes and lets get rid of huge shield mods on small ships, also we should take away local to get rid of cloak camping and take the training wheels away from nullbears. Cynos should have a fatigue timer per ship making it impossible to do more than one ship per minute and also limiting to 3 billion k mass per hour. We make all that then yay we can watch the game burn and find a new game for whiney brats to cry about when they can’t find a way to crab in complete safety in a PVP game.
disclaimer: Im no wormholer. Ive just dabbled in it. So i dont know what over implications the following idea will have. Just tell me.
With everything this update shakes, many are upset and forced to adapt.
The HIC was a poor role for this anyway.
How about one need to activate an AOE-Entosis Link in range of a Wormhole for 5-10minutes. Then, the ship will collapse the hole regardless of mass. And it will also make the last jump.
Therefor the entosis needs to be run on the “strange” side of a connection. Because run on “home”-side would disconnect you from your chain with that last jump. This could lead to some interesting encounters, while waiting for that timer.
important: This module can not be fitted to BC and smaller. Ergo some promotion for BATTLESHIPS. <3
(But entosis shouldnt be able to receive assistance, that change was bad imho. But what do i know.)
optional: With some entosis active on each side, progress is halted. (this might lead to interesting battles and hilarities)
optional: The ship will delay last jump, when scrammed, until unscrammed.
optional: …many other brainstorm ideas. You wormhole people should decide what environment you want to play in the next years until there is a next opportunity.
Wouldnt this be interestingly new?! Or does it totaly destroy the randomness. or are you too sick of aegis-sov to read ENTOSIS without puking or raging?
It hurt a little bit to read that. Besides anything to do with magic wands being horrible, I’d rather not see j space become easier to crab and really fast to close holes. As is you are fairly vulnerable while rolling holes and that is a good thing.
without getting into the weeds on ‘ideas’, I will try to explain what I can:
HIC in wh’s are used for the same things they are used in other parts of space; to catch ships.
a peripheral use of HIC’s has been to fit multiple bubbles to dramatically reduced mass on an ‘out’ jump thru a wh, then the prop + higgs is used (without the bubbles active) on the return jump. the intention being to reduce the likelihood you close the wh early on the way out, and therefore become stuck. this method makes you vulnerable because you are traveling thru the wh, exposing your oddball fitted ship, and it takes time bc of polarity(if you care) and travel time back to hole. oversized prop is not necessarily relevant for this purpose. the oversize prop just means the penalty from the higgs is mitigated some.
this functionality Also allows HIC ships to squeeze themselves thru frigate sized holes that ordinarily you can only squeeze a frig or dessie class ship thru.
^^this part is actually a very relevant part of the conversation
…because…
frig holes open random and into all various parts of space. this means that anywhere you would want to send your frigs +dessies to, you can also bring a HIC aswell. why does this matter? well, when you get a frig hole exiting into a ratting capital or super, a dictor alone would struggle to preserve itself in that sort of a scenario. a hic may struggle less (as its designed to be much sturdier), and specifically designed to hold supers from jumping out. the original change would’ve made the hic unable to perform these maneuvers. now, they are offering us no details on a fix to something they are breaking because…
a) lurch HIC. this is when a HIC fits for multiple bubbles, a longer mwd cycle, oversized mwd, and because of careful timing of module activations vs server ticks, they are able to achieve 8k+ m/s speeds with interceptor level agility, all while having a bubble going. so yea, it was a ‘bug’ / borderline exploit that has been in game for long enough to code a proper fix. they haven’t.
b) frig hole rolling. again, via careful timing of module activations, the hic is able to somewhat reliably cheat the mass limitations of a frig hole, applying far more mass than the hole Should allow. this is less of an issue imo, since its not as reliable as the lurch hic, and because frig holes regenerate mass, and because of the usual unknowns related to remaining wh mass. I kno its Possible, but I cant say that it is in particularly High Use, simply because frig holes are quite random.
the Main reason a segment of the csm is in full support of this, I suspect, is relating to the point about hics going through frig holes in the first place. nullbears cant cram sigils thru a frig hole to close it. so if they wana rat or mine, they have to do so knowing its Possible a gang of claws + hics can come thru that hole. the bane of all things ns apparently: threat. they also don’t like that griffins can jam their fighters but that’s a topic for the other thread.
this also works in reverse. if you want to crab in your wh, then you can obviously use the same mechanics to effectively close yourself off from other parts of space, frig holes included. temporarily at best.
personally, I don’t bother with frig holes. they have a shorter life span, and are great for shortcutting space in a frig or what not. I don’t think HIC’s being able to fit accordingly, and traverse frig holes is a bad thing. I think HICs being able to carefully time module activations in order to ‘cheat’ the server ticks, and thereby achieve results otherwise impossible is a very baad thing. that’s just my opinion. I don’t rat in ns typically. I also don’t think there is anything wrong with interceptor nullification, since even the ‘combat inty’ lacks any measurable punch unless in a blob. well, in a blob, EVERYTHING is op! or unfun…whatever the term of the day is.
tl;dr
PLEASE DONT bring entosis garbage to wh space. we don’t want it and don’t need it.
where else? bastion, siege, triage, cloaks, entosis, mwd, ab, polarized, to name a few
Thanx for the explanation to get me up to speed.
Rolling a hole can be quite fast: Scout, Calculate, Warpto, JumpIn and Out with your mates in coordinated pattern, warpoff. You and your mates should not have polarization issues when done correctly. (Ive dont this few years back.) ==> exposure below 2minutes. (the time while your ships are on grid and catchable.)
BUT with the “wand”-“feature”, exposure time would be higher AND can be defined to be any time ccp chooses. (i.e. 10minutes)
What comes to mind is a second kind of HIC, that has low mass; for traveling with destroyermates a good warpspeed and align; but has other weaknesses like low speed, lowdps, badpointrange and lacks PG to fit any oversize prop?
Every other T2 Cruiser has 2 Ships. Why not HICs?
But on another thought, what if by removing the threat of HICs coming through frigateholes, the likelyhood of them being closed by the nullsec entity shrinks. In other words: no HICdanger, ergo hole-close sloppy forgotten and off-the-radar. Ergo more content for frigate-roams. This is far out there, but possible effect. I cant quite decide if id like that… Find a super but have to go for the regular cap instead.
Months later everyone will just use Supers, but frigate-holes will catch all the VNIs.
Huh, thats a random thought. What do you think?
But i get now, why this is such a HUGE need for adaptation and how this patch will shake wormhole meta to the core. Big issue, totaly neglected. Bad move ccp. Be better prepared next time and provide a solution. But then again, this might be the case why changes take so long.
I agree that it’s a problem - but it’s something that’s been the case since 2008. People have been building gameplay around that mechanic for literally ten years. You can’t suddenly remove it.
Is it wrong? Yes. It was a mistake on CCP’s part ten years ago. But so much has been built on it that it’s ridiculous to suddenly get rid of it now.
What I meant to say is, based on the tone of Rise’s reply, is that CCP could/might give wormholers their toys back but also introduce additional variance
lol ok chance.
bastion/siege/triage/cloaks/nexus core(ill add):: are all I/O’s. that is; on or off. activating the module infers OFF attributes. its not an arbitrary ‘ceiling’ the original responder tried to imply would be a ‘feature’ of this mythical new mod.
mwd/ab:: not sure what you mean by these, unless your saying that they infer a bonus to speed when on, and none when off. they don’t carry with them a maximum speed that you cannot surpass via other means like boosts, ship fit, skills, ship type, etc.
polarized:: you mean the weapon systems? those come with a flat % penalty to another attribute related to the ship. and they are not in particularly high use. and relatively new. I was not a fan of them when they released, and still cant say I see them as adding anything particularly special to the game. just my opinion.
entosis:: suck. find me someone that isn’t on csm that thinks entosis’ing is good and not in any need of work. gl o7
I guess im the stupid donkey in your analogy, and I still <3’d your post cuz truth! 
why not just add a script to the current bubble that keeps the mass changes but disallows the activation of mwd/abs when used. I feel this would be a cleaner way of doing it and make it so we do not need to have another module added.
lore wise it could even use some mumbo jumbo in that it uses a modified warp bubble to manipulate its local mass. that way it will also be less confusing for players who come into the game latter as to why the hic for some reason is able to do this and not other ships.
Or the 500mn mwd gets one more attribute in the database - “can only be fit to battleship, marauder or black ops”.
OMG I fixed it.
at this point I think they have avoided that option every time it comes up on priceable.
you know like rather than restricting 100mn ab just remove all pg from the tengue so it can’t fit anything at all. that way it can still be fit to the perfectly balanced loki
why not just add a script to the current bubble that keeps the mass changes but disallows the activation of mwd/abs when used.
After re-reading it, I like this idea. Seems like the best and cleanest solution (which, unfortunately, usually means CCP won’t do it).
it should allow prop mods to be activated, but it needs to force stop them upon activation. this would force the pilot to reactivate the prop once the bubble is fired up, and thereby the proper penalties would apply. its really not complicated imo. this would fix the lurch hic.
but something makes me think that’s not all they sought to do, with these changes…
cleaner just to add the script and considering there is no need to have the prop on while rolling with these there is no chance of any adverse effects and no need to add in a new effect like canceling a module mid cycle something i’m not even sure is currently possible without a major rework of the underlining code.
can’t activate this scripted bubble with a prop on and can’t activate a prop mod with this script active
Any plan on upgrading the backgrounds and astronomical phenomena of J-systems? The BlackHole in Stellaris and Interstellar
looks much cooler thanAnd I relly miss thebackgrounds like this
you don’t like staring into a giant infected anus?
I prefer to think it looks like it had an eventful night out.
