[Updated] Improving PVP for new players

the only volunteers are the ISD mods.

I thought both EVE Academy and EVE University, the two main resources that made the game playable for me, were primarily volunteer efforts.

This is a joke, isnĀ“t it :wink:

Why would I be overflowing with empathy for anyone who thought it was fun to destroy something that took me 100 trips in a venture to earn?

Every person that isnā€™t an EVE player hears about the hours that it took to earn the procurer and the grundy nature of being a newbie in a venture and they are horrified: ā€œWhy would anyone even play?ā€

No one gets a spark in their eye and says ā€œWhat fun, you should play that game more! I would also like to play this game.ā€

Literally a massive reason people play this game. The ā– ā– ā– ā–  you build/acquire has value cause it takes so much to get (usually (especially as a newbro)). That is one of the biggest appeals towards this game and why so many play.

If it wasnā€™t then people wouldnt care about losing their 120+ billion isk titans or 50 billion isk supers or 8 billion isk dreads

Cool. I want to build yā€™all so many ships to fight each other.

Uncle. Youā€™re all stronger than me. I donā€™t want to be the strongest capsuleer. I donā€™t have 10^9 skill points, I literally canā€™t beat people unless I gear my entire life around earning skill injectors or dropping cash. This is all to play really boring and swingy pvp gameplay where Iā€™m gambling with hours of my life I spent earning ships. Nah. I want to mine rocks and build ships and tell jokes on discord. I want to play cooperative-only EVE while you boys have fun rolling in the mud.

You want a board or card game.

So do that. Nothing is stopping you besides you yourself.
Donā€™t need to be skilled 10^9, donā€™t have to be a god tier pvpā€™er, donā€™t have to drop loads of cash and you donā€™t even have to have tons of alts.
You just have to understand how the game is.
High sec = high security
Low sec = low security
Null/Wh = no security
Add on to these with a group who you fly with and you can mine anywhere you like. You just have to be aware of Local chat to see who is in system with you (minus wormholes) and understand how to use the intel tools at your disposal.
You ask for a co-op eve. The entirety of Eve is co-op. You just refuse to realize that.

Would all of you prefer if EVE had 500,000 Omega subscribers again, but a majority were on a PVE server (or using PVE subscriptions, etc), or if the game continued the slow playerbase decline, with CCP sustaining itself on PLEX whales?

CCP has the data on cancellation and player review sentiment. They know about the opportunity cost of maintaining these dated gameplay decisions.

I would rather Eve die then have a pve server.

As for the decreasing PCU yeah it has decreased, but it will recover or itā€™ll maintain and maybe even increase. CCP is going through a rough patch but theyā€™ve held on for roughly 20 years. Theyā€™ll keep going for a long time.

Alright, excellent. I just wanted to establish youā€™re motivated by pure unswavering logic. And that weā€™re all making rational and level business-minded reasoning in our arguments. Saying that youā€™d rather the game die than be successful but different was certainly instructive. Thank you.

What you donā€™t seem to understand is that you are in the extreme minority in your thoughts.
It would not be in CCPs best interest financially to dedicate resources to a pve only server. Eve Online is a grueling, difficult player versus player focused game. A pve server where they cater to carebears even more would only ruin the game and ruin CCPs Eve Online brand. The amount of resources they would need to create this, maintain it and then convince people to play on it would be more than a waste. It would also drive away so many current eve players.

That is what you are failing to understand.

Iā€™m not dismissing or refusing to understand that the game is difficult and grueling. I mined a lot. I traded, omegaā€™d engaged with the game 5+ days a week for months. Someoneā€™s elseā€™s zkillboard dopamine high killed me as an income stream for CCP. I am willing to bet the number of people that the oppressive* PVP forced away far exceeds the current playerbase. CONCORD installed a chip in every clone that doesnā€™t let them shoot NEGA clones. There are multiple ways to achieve the desired goal: Letting people say no to PVP.

*A short summary of my thoughts as I get locked and scrambled as I come out of a gate: Oh I had no way to avoid or outplay that enemy. Its a shame this game is unplayable without six tabs in a browser open. I really wish this game didnā€™t require that I have two monitors. Huh. Well, Iā€™m dying. Maybe I can negotiateā€¦ Nope. Just called me names. It takes minutes to break my shield tank. No escape. Watch hours of my life die for the amusement of a person who considers me content. I am only a victim here. Not fun. Hours of my life, gone. I am older with nothing to show for it but pain.

If the OP is serious about this, they should request the ability to opt-out of Singularity mirror updates. As others have pointed out, Singularity offers the requested functionality.

Eve echoes may be more in tune with what you want

Dont undock then.

Learn the game before you start playing. Each area, HIghsec/lowsec/null/wh/pochven all operate differently. Research them and learn how they work. The resources are out there, the help is out there, you just dove straight into it and then cried because you went somewhere where pvp is acceptable without the offender having any serious consequence.

Eve has loss and that loss is suppose to mean something. Take away the loss you take away a massive portion of the game.

I would never in a million years complain about a PVP loss while I was in FW. I volunteered, joined a FW corp. It was very explicit. As was leaving the FW. Maybe implementation can be through joining specific NPC corps like Sisters of EVE with a monthly PLEX tax. I canā€™t get good at PVP. Being good at PVP combat requires risking my mining profits on a combat system that I suck at because getting good requires practice, practice means losing ships and losing ships feels like Iā€™m dying. I canā€™t imagine how they can tune down the loss to ā€œGosh darn it, I need to do better so that happens less.ā€ The best I can hope for is that they allow PVE in piecemeal and at some point I can rejoin when theyā€™ve ship of theseusā€™d over to some kind of PVE system.

missions, incursions, those are PVE, the new dr who eventā€¦ thats pve. doing pve can teach you pvpā€¦

Blasting things at 75km in a Hurricane in L4s has never once helped me when I was completely unarmed and warp scrambled in an industrial, venture, or barge. Maybe just let me deliver water between NPC vendors when I want to without the oppressive PVP? Youā€™re telling me that I need a different game when I want to have a chill time in EVE. I just need a break from constantly feeling I will be trapped and killed with no opportunity for counterplay, If my opponent and I had to solve a small puzzle in a race against each other to maintain or break the warp scramble, or negating my escape took any mechanical ability whatsoever, Iā€™d feel like I had some control over my losses. This ainā€™t exactly fortnite, mechanical skill is completely secondary to game knowledge and situation awareness. In an FPS, my opponent is at least better in some mechanical way than me.
I have never gotten a single kill on any account in EVE. I canā€™t play EVE without being a victim so I stopped playing. The only victory I can have over the big strong PVPers is to not play a game I enjoy so they have one less person to kill. Iā€™m not alone. Iā€™m just reminding the devs we like the lore and the indy, just not constantly feeling like we might be trapped and attacked!

I have lost ships yoloing into FW, in PVP in WHs, in missions when I was jumped while low on health in low sec. All fair game. Sucks, but all were my own mistakes. Getting killed for funsies in a defenseless ship is such a terrible experience, itā€™s actually a very common sentiment in reviews of EVE. In particular the lack of any escape, it just feels gross. It kills engagement with a large number of FORMER players, not current players. People who would love the game, but for the PVP overfocus.

First off, the proc is not defenseless. The most defensible mining ship besides the skiff.

Secondly,

Large numbers of players who no longer play didnā€™t stop playing because of pvp when they didnt want it. Normally game changes are to blame for people leaving, or real life.

Third

This is exactly how higher tier pvp is suppose to be and is. However to get there and to get to a point where you understand the game there are plenty of options to get better at pvp. Frigates are cheap ships and are great at being used to learn the basics of pvpā€™ing. Whether you pvp cause you want to or just to learn so you can avoid it, doesnā€™t matter.

There are plenty of ways to learn to just PVE and avoid PVP. Occasionally youā€™ll run into PVP because that is how the game is. IT IS A PVP ORIENTED GAME.
You either need to realize that and adapt or find a different game. That is all there is to it. Otherwise you will never play eve again and #nothingofvaluewaslost.
Iā€™d say Iā€™m sorry, but I am not as this is just how eve is, has been and always will be.