Utari's Puppies (Formerly Off-Topic Thread)

[Arrendis]

@Aria_Jenneth

Sure there is! It’s something humans have often historically taken outsized pride in, but also something that seems to actually sometimes be a factor in human decision-making rather than merely its product. Our capacity to reason might not rule our lives, but it does play an interesting role.

Well, that assumes that our ability to reason is anything special. I don’t think it is. Anyone who’s seen other animals solving problems can see that ‘logic’ and ‘reason’ are just normal processes of the natural world, results of the electrochemical cascades in specialized neurons which produce the delusion that calls itself a ‘mind’. And that’s why we don’t act as rational actors: those natural processes are, inevitably, affected by other natural processes in those specialized neurons, like hormone exposure.

‘Reason’ is no different from ‘erosion’, except that we’re saddled with this delusional conception of ourselves as having true agency.

[Aria_Jenneth]

I said it was interesting, not that it was unique or even hugely important. In fact I think I kind of implied the opposite.

(Can we maybe conserve our arguments for places where we actually disagree? There are definitely some spots like that out there.)

[Arrendis]

Ok, then I misread what you meant. No worries.

[Aria_Jenneth]

'sokay. I probably could have been more clear.

[Arrendis]

@Aria_Jenneth

albeit one with maybe questionable utility

[Insert boilerplate discussion on all sides about whether or not the ‘faction war’ is a sham war and just an opportunistic bloodsport for the yoking of angry and resentful ‘loyalists’ and vicious psychopaths while selling merchandising and fantasy league memberships, or a legitimate-but-utterly-stupid attempt at reconquering systems and settling old scores.]

Ok, wanted to get that out of the way before someone else decided to have it for real.

[Aria_Jenneth]

@Skyweir_Kinnison

It’s a pity you didn’t spend more time on your Sojourn among us.

It is. It’s not that I didn’t like the Federation; it’s just, it was just right at the end of my time with PY-RE, and …

I felt like a crow in a flock of white song, you know? Wrong. Bad. Out of place. A shadow in direct sunlight, a bhaalgorn in Paradise. I got so depressed I could hardly leave my room, started having dreams where I was using my own blood as high-grade black ink.

I couldn’t stay. I fled. There’s no other word for it. I went back to the Empire and the Society, gave my oath of service to the Directrix, and I’ve been here ever since, trying to piece together what’s left of my soul and maybe even heal.

It’s not like my concerns about the Federation’s stability and all that are gone, but I’ll certainly concede it’s a beautiful place.

Just, not mine.

@Skyweir_Kinnison

Oh, and hi.

Hi back! … It’s good to see you again, Mr. Kinnison.

[Kalaratiri]

@Aria_Jenneth

trying to piece together what’s left of my soul

Oh man, we weren’t that bad were we?

[Deitra_Vess]

Admittedly it was a little sad it seemed you either had no place to go to or interest to see the Matari side of things. Given our rather fragmented nature I can sorta understand but at least some attempt could have been given. I don’t know what factors shaped that decision so I am not trying to cast blame, it’s a shame you couldn’t is all as you settled into our enemies arms without a visable attempt to see the other side.

[Aria_Jenneth]

Haha-- no, you weren’t. And yes, a little.

So … let me try to sketch this out a little, Kala.

I was in some ways essentially a child when I joined PY-RE. My oldest memories were no more than a few months old, and I was (and am) a little emotionally fragile. My defenses were pretty weak-- which is why I was stupid enough to listen to Anslo at that party when he said at least my predecessor “had guts.” Unlike me.

It was that insult, more than anything else whatsoever, that brought me to PY-RE.

I learned a lot from you. There’s been no better hunting group I’ve been a part of, before or since-- and I adored the hunt. I really loved it. But I wasn’t a hardened soldier or mercenary or even a pirate, and I was killing people I had no reason at all to want dead, except that it was fun and easy and I was good at it. I’d never been through basic training or anything similar; I’d neither been hardened against the work nor thought about the gravity of what I was doing seriously enough to understand what it might be doing to me.

My brain might have been in an adult formation-- judgment centers fully-formed and all that-- but my sense of who I was was … vague, unformed, almost blank. I was never a soldier; I was just a deadly child.

Of the first year of my remembered life, I was with you for about half. It was a formative period, but at the end of it I went on that trip to the Federation and found out-- and I really should have seen it coming-- that by local standards I was a horrible person.

Aldrith had tried to tell me, but it’s the Federation that got through. It was like someone held up a mirror for me and all I saw was this empty-eyed void-sprite grinning back.

I wasn’t very well hardened against that, either. It hit me pretty hard.

Maybe nobody else would have been hit like that-- I’m still really fond of everybody, and I can’t quite regret the time we spent together … but I wasn’t really someone who should have been there, Kala. I was tearing myself apart, and I couldn’t even see it. It wasn’t your fault; you were all just serving your roles.

The one who shouldn’t have been there, was me.

[Kalaratiri]

@Aria_Jenneth

to listen to Anslo at that party when he said at least my predecessor “had guts.” Unlike me.

It was that insult, more than anything else whatsoever, that brought me to PY-RE.

It will never cease to amuse me just how often his unrelenting hate for us ending up pushing people into our warm and welcoming arms.

@Aria_Jenneth

it was fun and easy and I was good at it

I can understand why other circumstances, particularly your own, would have made the situation untenable. My own, and I think for a lot of us at PYRE, meant that finding something fun and easy was pretty much everything I wanted, perhaps needed, at that time. Even if it was deeply rooted in indiscriminate violence.

@Aria_Jenneth

by local standards

I think this is a fairly important statement actually, one thing I’m sure you noticed on your travels is that the moral compass of the cluster swings wildly depending on where you are and who you’re with. I certainly don’t think you’re a horrible person just because you killed some people. Everyone kills people.

I am glad that you are happier now though.

[Aria_Jenneth]

@Deitra_Vess

Admittedly it was a little sad it seemed you either had no place to go to or interest to see the Matari side of things. Given our rather fragmented nature I can sorta understand but at least some attempt could have been given. I don’t know what factors shaped that decision so I am not trying to cast blame, it’s a shame you couldn’t is all as you settled into our enemies arms without a visable attempt to see the other side.

So … it’s a combination of stuff, Deitra. I planned to come. You were next in line next after the Federation, and then I was going to maybe start looking at some of the outer powers.

But, I got sick, so sick I couldn’t even go out. It’s nobody’s fault but mine; I poisoned myself without building immunity. I’m still in recovery. I might be for the rest of my life.

Also, I did make some tentative overtures to try coming anyway some time last year, and was rebuffed. I don’t remember all the details, but I think that might have been the point where Ms. Rhiannon got kind of frustrated with me and carefully explained to me that I’m the enemy. Which was nice of her. Or maybe that was another time. Also, Kala’s explained that it’s not very likely I’d be able to see all that much anyway. I’m an outsider, after all, and my allegiances and choices of friends are suspect at best to Matari eyes.

So. Maybe someday, but … I guess I got pretty discouraged.

[Deitra_Vess]

Ya I mean like I said I don’t blame ya, I do wonder if your views now would be different if you went there first is all. Groups vary widely but one constant for the most part is as Kala said, she’s absolutely right on that.

[Arrendis]

@Aria_Jenneth

Also, Kala’s explained that it’s not very likely I’d be able to see all that much anyway. I’m an outsider, after all, and my allegiances and choices of friends are suspect at best to Matari eyes.

I think if you start in the right places, that could be overcome. People do understand someone seeking wisdom, after all. The bigger challenge might be dealing with the thousands of different cultures. Sure, there’s an overarching commonality… but Clan to Clan, things can get kind of… particular, even on the same station, let alone on a planet. Not all Clans are all that particular about little things, mind, but… it’s impossible to know who is and isn’t until you find out, as it were, you know?

[Kalaratiri]

So, turns out that conversation is one I… don’t quite recall. Huh.

[Aria_Jenneth]

I think I asked you about it at a party. I think what you more particularly said was that I wouldn’t be allowed to see much as an outsider (not kin); I might have kind of mingled in the rest about additional reasons for not trusting me. I’m sorry.

Oh-- wait. No, I think it was somewhere on this forum actually.

[Melisma_Ramijozana]

@Aria_Jenneth

But, I got sick, so sick I couldn’t even go out.

Here’s the thing: You also have a nasty tendency to shoot down any pro-Matari argument here on IGS. I am new, but as far as I’ve seen, you seldom ever open your mind to anything we say. You just dismiss us (‘us’ being all of the Mataris I’ve seen here, whether I’ve agreed with them or not) out of hand.

It is true that many Matari clans, and even whole tribes for extremely good reasons, are very exclusive and wouldn’t let you see very much. But we are not a monolith, and you do all of us a disservice by painting us all with the same brush; by ‘getting discouraged,’ as you said.

I don’t know what happened in Amarr; maybe you got lucky and found some pretty open people from the jump. As far as I’ve seen, they can be pretty exclusive as well.

At any rate, if you are serious about wanting to learn more about Matari but not having the chance/ability, I’ll extend an invitation to you. You’re welcome to visit our homeland on Matar, and I’ll show you around a bit, have you talk with some of my kin. My clan aren’t historically one of the very open/friendly ones, but they are already currently going through the process of trying to accept the Caldari guy who I kinda just dropped on them. What’s one more? The more the merrier, right?

[Aria_Jenneth]

Hm. It’s an intriguing invitation. Historically I’ve actually looked for sort of host organizations or individuals willing to take me in and let me sort of be a part of things for a while, but even being able to pay a friendly visit like that might be a really good thing.

I won’t hold you to your offer if you change your mind after finding out a few more details, though; as a sworn retainer to the Directrix I’m about as tangled up with the Amarr as you can get without actually being a member of their faith and an Imperial subject. That might be a source of some of the dismissiveness you’re detecting: the arguments between Republic and Empire on this board are intense, but, respectfully, they’re usually pretty predictable. It leads to a feeling of, “Are we really doing this again?” especially because the fight is only really my own vicariously.

Actually, I’m a little puzzled, though. Arrendis is Matari; so’s Kala and Deitra; Mizhara can choke on ground glass but that’s not just because she’s Matari … I don’t want to dismiss your concern out of hand, but was there a particular spot or series of spots you were thinking of? I might have been a little hard on Isha but I can’t feel bad about that considering the kind of time she was giving poor Ms. Priano.

(Also, how do you prefer to be addressed? The Empire tends towards formality, but I’ve recently started trying to stick more to what people are comfortable with and it seems like the Matari largely reject formal forms of address, so …)

[Melisma_Ramijozana]

Technically I’m extending the invitation in my capacity as CEO of Corovid Industries. Not that that title means jack ■■■■ to any Matari, but if the formality puts you at ease, then we can certainly use it.

You’re welcome to stay a while if you really want to dig in; I just got the impression from your last post that you didn’t have the ability to stay anywhere for very long. If that was incorrect, then I stand corrected.

I wasn’t aware of your explicit connections in Amarr, but I did assume that you are probably wrapped up in it based on what you’ve said before. Still, the invitation stands, provided that any and all parties involved endeavor to do no harm to the other in the process. I’ll pledge safe conduct on my end.

I’m a little unclear on what you mean by “spots.” As in, do I have an idea of where I would put you? Yes; there shouldn’t be any trouble with your staying on our clan lands in Mikramurka. It’s a fairly remote place. I don’t think most Matari could even point to my hometown on a map. If the other Matari on IGS have opinions on this idea, I’d certainly entertain them, but they aren’t of my clan, so they wouldn’t have much influence on the actual visit.

If you did come and then decided you wanted to visit other places, like the major cities, then we could figure out how to negotiate that when we reach that point.

Also, you can just call me Melisma.

[Aria_Jenneth]

Hm. It might be a little while before I can take you up on such an offer, Melisma. Duties-- but, I’ll remember, and hope to take you up on your offer at some time. I don’t think the Directrix will object to me doing such a thing, either. Thank you.

About the “spots,” I more meant places where I’ve been dismissive enough of pro-Matari arguments to get your attention. I often get along with people okay, though (despite Teinhyr’s remarks) it’s not like I can really claim to be neutral. I am loyal to the Amarr Empire-- but, vicariously, in the sense that swore an oath of service to someone who is a loyal Amarrian subject.

[Deitra_Vess]

As I am not from Matar I have no comment, I’m sure others do however…