Version 21.02 - General Feedback

Many of these questions were featured in the Photon UI Devblog, which you can find here: Improving Photon UI | EVE Online

And the final word on the matter goes toā€¦

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LOL :smiley:

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You do realize that this dev blog is a parody, right? Photon is not

more intuitive, accessible, and coherent.

Itā€™s already starting out just as incoherent as the old UI with conflicting button layouts, inconsistent button designs, UI features hiding UI functions, bad design principles to draw the UI, just to name a few.

All the design elements such as buttons, tabs, and window headers converged into a single, coherent style.

Especially buttons are not coherent, neither in their style nor their highlighting behavior.

Updated font style and the rules for how it is used.

I would really like to know the rules that dictate that ā€œQuit Gameā€ is truncated, but ā€œCannot Access Control Channelā€ is not, despite the latter covering a ton more space in the notification window and the former having 50% empty space between the text and the close button.

A new and more UX-focused color library, with new color themes

The color library and themes are anything but UX focused. They limit, inhibit and hamper the experience due to lacking contrast, lacking customizability, lacking color visibility, lacking differentiation between background and interactive fields.

Many quality-of-life improvements across various feature windows, e.g. Drone window, Inventory Window

The inventory window lost a crap load of QOL with Photon. No more easy to access buttons to stack (ie. sort hangars), vanishing Search box when stacked, hard to read and use hangar fill gauge, just to name a few.

Linking this dev blog can only be a joke in light of all the issues contradicting all of the claims made in this devblog. :joy:

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guysā€¦ thereā€™s a whole other thread like thisā€¦ with stuff likeā€¦

Stupid developer! Thatā€™s what I said. I wonā€™t play anymore!

I submitted a proposal to reject the new UI half a month ago, and no developer responded to me! no one! I am very sad.

awesome :slight_smile:

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So far, I really can only say 2 good things about the new UI:

  • Multiple overviews is amazing
  • Having a better framework should, in theory, allow CCP to make changes more quickly and easily. (Although if this were true, we probably should have seen some of the issues addressedā€¦)

On the other handā€¦

  • Weā€™ve lost a load of information density in various windows - chat, inventory, locations, etc. In a game like this, information density is critical; even losing a small amount, such as with the chat channel player list, can be significant. In short: Thereā€™s still too much damn padding. (And thatā€™s including Compact Mode and small margins)
  • Accessibility - Despite all the claims about contrast and readability and whatnot, almost all of the changes are - to this visually impaired player - far worse in terms of accessibility. Active state for UI elements (inventory, the Neocom, chat channels, etc) are much less noticeable than before. Thereā€™s no contrast in various messages anymore, such as notifications and employment history. The few themes we have now are extremely bland - I donā€™t know what ā€œUX-focusedā€ means, but the previous themes - beyond just being cool - address some accessibility concerns with some people
  • Information that has been in the same place for ā€¦ 20 years? has been moved - notably in the inventory windows. Speaking of, itā€™s now also harder to switch inventory modes

As always, the bigger issue here is CCPā€™s lack of actual communication re: these issues. And no, pointing to a months-old devblog that vaguely touches on the reasoning the team had is not the same. Actually talk to players in these threads, and talk about the issues they keep bringing up. Are they non-issues to the team? Will they be addressed?

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Speaking of top left options on various windowsā€¦ when in space, I have my fleet window and cargo window stacked.

Under the classic UI, I could have the cargo window on top and if I wanted to sayā€¦ have my squad commander toon do a regroup on squad members, I could click the top left corner icon and do regroup without having to swap to the fleet window actually being on top.

I canā€™t find a way to do this with the new Photon UI. I have to switch to the fleet window first and THEN use the . . . button near the top right of the window to select regroup. Why isnā€™t this . . . thing available on stacked windows underneath other windows like the top left button used to be?

This oneā€™s a big loss in functionality IMOā€¦ unless Iā€™m missing something. Am I missing something? Please tell me Iā€™m missing something. (other than maybe a keyboard shortcut for regroupā€¦ which I should probably look into anyway, I guess)

What in the hell is this thing and why is it flickering in the top left corner of my UI ?!

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So, just a suggestion on that one, @CCP_Swift : yes, questions are answered in that devblogā€¦ from 3 months ago. Which is in no way referenced in the patch notes for the patch that removed the opt-out. Nor referenced in the post at the top of the thread soliciting feedback.

Perhaps, in the future, such FAQ posts should be referenced and re-linked when the matters they refer to are in play?

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@CCP_Swift
While we are on the subject of you having an opportunity to prove that CCP does not stand for Cannot Communicate Properly, one notes that a whole week on, you still do not have a single Known Issue acknowledged in the sister thread to this one.

Is there nothing that you will admit could and should be fixed? Brisc and others have repeatedly claimed that they are confident that you are paying attention to the Photon problems exhaustively detailed for months now, and that you really do intend to fix them so that it might finally begin to approach the old UI for utility.

So go on, pick something and reassure us that you do realise there are things within Photon that need fixing.

The drone window?
The colour sets?
The Recover Probe button?

Three easy ones there.

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OK butā€¦ we have seen multiple examples of complaints about photon which have been improved over time leading up to it being pushed live without an opt out. I stand by the opinion that it would have been better to wait a bit longer before removing the opt out, but that doesnā€™t mean nothing has been fixed. I posted a handful of example in a recent post about it.

And, again, I donā€™t think itā€™s ready yet, but Iā€™m not ok with people who are nominally ā€œon my sideā€ using objectively false arguments to try and support that position. If I know a claim is false, Iā€™m not going to sit back just because itā€™s presenting a claim in my favour here.

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I was referring to the issues raised since version 21.02 was released. Unless I missed a patch since then.

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ok yeah, thereeā€™s some pre-existing issues not fixed yet, and no progress in the 0 patches since the last set of patch notesā€¦ but we are coming up to another weekly updatee day soā€¦ maybe after this next downtime?

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The Photon team has been collecting feedback and acting on it for the better part of a year. Theyā€™re certainly not stopping now :+1:

Still, we encourage people to post feedback on Photon UI in the Photon section of the forums (Photon UI - EVE Online Forums) . Suggestions not listed in the Known Issues doesnā€™t mean theyā€™re not listened to, itā€™s simply that Known Issues typically is used for tracking defects with the patch.

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But you are not listing any defects!

So either you think there are no defects, or you are failing to list the very obvious defects.

I am sorry, but people have been listing Photon issues for MONTHS. Yet your only communication is to say ā€œThe Photon team has been collecting feedback and acting on it for the better part of a year. Theyā€™re certainly not stopping now.ā€

Unsupported assertion as opposed to even the odd detailed exemplar of where they have listened and acted.

Take the ridiculously small and ill-placed Recover Probes button.

Why can you not say - yes, we will fix this? Give your long suffering customers some small evidence that you are listening and delivering. You might not think that button is a defect, because it is not a bug but working as designed. The problem is that it has clearly been designed by someone who has never used probes in the game. Not a bug, but definitely a significant defect.

Come on, please, you are supposed to be communicating with us. There is more to effective communication than platitudes and blandishments.

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Thanks for the communication and clarification.

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Than If I understand what your Saying, There is No known defect with the patch?

Wasnt the UI part of that patch?

No. The UI was already there, they just removed the opt out part.

The known issues would be like if the patch dropped, but something within the game that worked previously, went bonkers after the patch dropped

Like in the last patch, the rifter had vfx problems when undocking from upwell structures

Than How about we get a Known Ishues For photon UI, as all i see is crickets