Walking in Stations - Service Deeds


(Selphentine) #1

Now, the WiS Problem. It was always somewhat problematic, because while surely attracting and exciting, the question remained if the dev time and money spent on it was worth it. I may have an idea how to get this problems out of the way.

First off, before i actually “start”, WiS should contain things like poker. The payouts however can be taxed, at lets say 5% - always the question if one keeps on playing, or just keeps the chips, or gets the isk out. But where do those 5% actually go?

Deed owners. As an important note, buying isk from other players was always possible, usually via plex - its important ccp doesnt actually give/creates isk for your money. And the point of the idea is, selling deeds - meaning shares, partially owning - in a webshop to “Kickstart” WiS itself.
Lets say, CCP offers 1 million deeds 5$ each in the webstore. Each deed gives you the respective partially payout from the 5% tax the payouts of the hold em has. as soon as its implemented. Ofc, people can freely trade the deeds for isk ingame, if they prefer that. And people love shares. As soon as enough are sold, the developement can start. Meanwhile, people can buy shares ingame for isk from other players or go to the webshop and buy some. ofc, one would need to find out how big the amount of money is thats needed to implement basic WiS, but the deed amount is quite adjustable.

I dislike all these “i got the solution to everything” posts, but considering the Success of KICKSTARTER and other platforms, that basically give you nothing for your money, a WiS kickstarter where you get shares can be successfull.


(Nevyn Auscent) #2

Welcome to online gambling. Where a bunch of real world laws different between every country mean this simply won’t happen.

Now if you can come up with a relevant thing inside of EVE for WiS, that doesn’t simply add difficulty to an existing task, and that also isn’t mandatory to do yourself, then you may have some luck with WiS.


(Selphentine) #3

Mh, are you sure this also applies for gambling where you technically dont play for real values?.. okay, lootboxgate makes it not easier to go this path, i admit.

Now, playing games within the game kind of is the whole point for WiS, i guess. Well this was more about the shares itself, than the actual what to play.
For a start, you cant make one room for everyone anyways, so whats available could be made by rentals - like corp offices now. Part of that rental fee could go back into the deeds.
And from there on, you could add 3D models of existing stuff to add to the rentable places - like, pieces of veldspar to stand around, or… well you get it, i guess. (Maybe you could add poker if you cant play for anything? not isk, nor anything? im not sure if THAT still makes things complicated in a lot of countries.)

People like to socialize. See it in other games, where people just go and show off their stuff in the main cities, chat around… shipspinning advanced would be great, but i understand the development cost and risk kind of getting too high, thats why i thought “crowdfunding” may work.


(Nevyn Auscent) #4

Put up a Citadel, undock and socialise while tethered. That’s the equivalent to other MMO’s social areas. Or outside a station in High Sec. Then you can show off your ship skins and your expensive ships.

You are asking for an entire engine to be made simply for a social chat room with pictures. It’s never going to happen without actual game reasons. That aren’t a game inside a game.


(Merin Ryskin) #5

Exactly. Remember that WiS primarily happened as a side effect of CCP’s other (now canceled) MMO. They had to build the engine for it anyway, so adding some EVE assets was cheap. An entirely new WiS version, with no other game to drive its development, would be a much greater investment of resources for a minimal return.


(Selphentine) #6

Im aware of that. Thats why it wont happen without an additional reason to happen. Basically, let the money decide, if not enough deeds are sold in timeframe x, one could still convert them to plex.

Thats by far worse than actually having WiS though. One of the major turn downs i experience is that eve can easilly make you feel like you´re not really around a lot of people. Looking at other online games, a lot feature a hub for that.

Kind of the Problem is, the usual eve player already stayed in eve as it is, meaning not having much importance for that. We can only guess if that feature wont attract more folks, but im always for more sand in the sandbox.


(Nevyn Auscent) #7

WiS will not make you feel like you are around more people either.
It will further spread the player base out, since in EVE it won’t magically transport you to a single location but will be specific to your current docked location.
If you want to feel like you are around people, just go sit on the Jita undock.


(Selphentine) #8

We both play for a while now. We got people around us. We know how much people can suddenly appear somewhere. And we should both know why sitting on the jita undock isnt the smartest move, nor feeling like socializing.
I would understand that argument more if i was taking things away, or had no idea how to actually get the dev time for it. As i said, a lot of people now playing eve simply… like eve as it is, of course. That includes maybe no feel of socializing around. However, saying it wont make you feel like youre around people more is like saying it will - a subjective expectation.

Im not sure whats so bad about that. Crowdfunding is… kind of the trend right now, looking at other games, and eve could become a more immersive universe without actually affecting anyone outside of it (as the developement cost would not be taken from eve funds).


(Do Little) #9

There are lots of 3D avatar chat services out there so CCP doesn’t need to reinvent the wheel. The question is whether it’s worth the effort to integrate one of those chat services with the Eve client.

One of the reasons given for removing the captain’s quarters was to get rid of some middleware that was blocking development of a 64 bit client. I have no idea what the timetable is for that but a new client will bring new opportunities.


(Selphentine) #10

Well, look at the success of VR chat. People like to socialize, thats the main point. The question if its worth it? thats why i came up with the deeds. If you can collect enough money, it probably is, if not, you can still convert them to plex and did no harm.


(Tipa Riot) #11

What hinders you to just open a kickstarter project, collect funds, assemble a development team and create an EvE Avatar game? Negotiating a license agreement with CCP should be possible.

If this works standalone, then it will work also inside EvE online, and you can sell the IP back for big money to CCP.


(Nevyn Auscent) #12

So you suggest that they implement a 3rd party service they have no control over, and no ability to integrate the current clothing line to… And really think that’s a serious plan?
They will have to develop their own engine if they ever make a WiS, because it has to be compatible with the EVE client, and show everything correctly.


(Selphentine) #13

in all honesty, the experience and the cooperation to actually not end up with a steamy standalone mess thats nowhere ready.
Mh, actually sounds a bit like ccp.


(Do Little) #14

These forums are hosted on a 3rd party service they have no control over (Discourse). There is a lot of debate in the software community these days over build, buy or subscribe to a service.

If a service exists that meets your needs - it is usually the best choice. It’s also probably the only way we’ll ever see anything remotely resembling WIS since that functionality has nothing to do with core gameplay in Eve. If it can quickly and easily be added using a subscription service - maybe it will make sense.


(Sonya Corvinus) #15

What WiS Problem?


(Nevyn Auscent) #16

These forums also aren’t part of the game engine, but an external thing that isn’t integrated. Much like any of the other 3rd party tools. If the forums go down it doesn’t ruin the game.


(Selphentine) #17

As i said, the question if the money/time spend on it was worth the outcome.


(Baba Ji) #18

It may be the economical choice for the “now”. Sourcing out is a key indicator if a company’s choice is for the long or short view. Contracts expire and almost never get replaced with an equal or better. They get replaced with a cheaper. Keep it in house then its yours for good or ill.

I don’t agree when it comes to MMOs. Anytime I seen a feature replaced by a 3rd party feature it usually turned to ■■■■ soon after. The games owners control is limited. When the 3rd party source closes,changes hands,or becomes obsolete the game usually suffers.

I came back to see what the WiS was like and had no idea or expectation beyond reading an article from a time of its proposal. I thought well Eve may indeed be evolving. Six months after I saw what little did exist it got removed. I left a character in my CQ and there it will remain.

64 bit? I’ll believe when I see it. Other games still run on 32 bit and suffer tremendously. Surprisingly all those producers claim they are making the transition but somehow idea always find a way to get lost.

WiS at trade hubs with a certain level of activity. No chat box list,only chat bubbles over each player. Then I could sit back and toss a stiff one and read all the convo. There isn’t really any activity that could occur that wouldn’t get exploited for rmt. So that diminishes a fun factor :slightly_frowning_face: The social aspect appeals. Plus players always find a way to make some interesting fun.


(system) #19

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