Your enemy doesn’t have to agree to the victory conditions you set for yourself for you to achieve victory. I once wardecced a guy knowing full well he would roll his corp, and make a new one with the same name. The intent, my victory condition, was to steal the name of that corp the moment he rolled. I succeeded, and he couldn’t remake his corp with the same name. That was a victory. That was a win. Whether he wanted to participate in it or not is irrelevant.
‘Games’ are not the only thing you can win. Yes, beating other players in a fight is a win. You still have not refuted that, and your dear hunting analogy was awful. If your victory condition is bringing home veal for dinner, that’s still a win. You ever actually been hunting? It can actually be quite competitive, kinda like fishing as well. The bigger the dear/fish, the more pints they buy you at the pub later on. That’s a win in my book. Maybe not yours, but I find yours pedantic and unrealistic. You prattle on with ‘definitions’ without the realisation that I studied game theory as part of a masters degree. By the strict definition you’re laying out, EVE isn’t even a game at all, since there is no fail state. None. You can’t lose EVE. There is no ‘game over’ screen. In fact, there are only a few video games in existence that qualify as actual games these days, one of the best examples being XCOM.
But there are a range of circumstances that allow us to accept EVE as a game, just as there are a range of circumstances that allow us to call a victory against another player a win, whether they were actively competing or not. Doesn’t matter though, because everyone in EVE is actively competing in PVP all the time, whether they know it or not. That’s what EVE is.
So all that loot and isk you generate by running missions… that doesn’t become part of the player driven economy? The mission site itself can’t be scanned down by a player, and invaded, resulting in PVP?
Nah mate, everything in this game is PVP, or at the very least there to drive and facilitate PVP. That’s why all the PVE content is generic and repetitive, because it’s a tool more than it is actual gameplay.
The only way someone can get the name of someone selling something is to buy it from them. So using your logic, you are saying people are only buying to find out who the buyer is. If this is the case, it probably wouldn’t take long to confirm this is happening, and probably worth it in the long run (as the seller) to move something that is probably well over a billion a piece item.
That is unless you are trying to move something by contract to avoid a minor amount of tax.
Instead of selectively quoting a small section of the statement, how about quoting the whole thing so it’s presented in the proper context:
Missions are PvE - it’s between the player and the game AI, there is no competition happening with other players. That mission offer is strictly for the player who requested it. The agent isn’t offering that mission at the same time to multiple players saying whoever completes the objective gets the reward. The mission site only spawns for the player who accepted the mission. The site can’t be scanned down by other players.
Now the location of the player ship can be scanned and found due to the scanning mechanic which imparts a small aspect of PvP to mission running. However if mission running is done in a secluded system with no other players in it then that automatically negates the PvP aspect.
As for the loot, Reprocessing it in station is PvE. Using the materials from that to Manufacture munitions is also PvE. The ISK generated from missions can be used to purchase LP store items which is also PvE.
Now I’m not saying this game isn’t PvP but that aspect of it can be easily bypassed if a player was so inclined.
I’m offended because it’s yet another attempt to taint merc corps and our way of playing the game as somehow illegitimate. To be honest it’s getting rather tiresome. Firstly we’re driving newbies away from the game (no - we don’t target newbie corps…they’re no fun to fight. Often newbies end up getting some fitting advice and some isk to buy a new ship if they are caught), now we must be botting to afford all the war decs?
I (and my alliance) have nothing to prove to a forum alt that has zero history within the game.
Very tough to get insta-blapped by gankers if you undock in an empty system. And if nobody is there to instigate PvP then the implied consent to PvP for undocking is irrelevant.
You’re making a ridiculous argument. Even in a dead-end system with nobody else in, anyone could jump into the system at any time, warp to you and kill you. By undocking you are accepting the risk that you could lose your ship to another player. That is eve.
You don’t need a wardec to freely engage in Low or Null.
Wardecs allow you to fight in HS. It’s the whole purpose of Wardecs.
The trade offs are that your target knows it’s coming in advance, a not insignificant ISK cost, and they are temporary (but can be renewed), and only PC corps/alliances can be targeted (not individuals) - so they can be avoided by disbanding or dropping corps.
Removing wardecs from HS means removing wardecs altogether…
You’re making an assertion that an accusation should be broadened.
The burden of proof is on you, you need to present some reasons as to why you’re not talking out of your arse.
Don’t think for a second here that I’m being biased, I’ve been an outspoken critic of vendetta’s leadership, conduct and tactics (ninjas cool though, as I’m sure many of their members are)
And far be it from me to miss an opportunity to get on khrom’s tits but you need to back up that statement with something
Ralph, I have a suspicion that others could be doing it, but I have no proof to make a direct accusation and I think like you that the burden of proof should be on the ones making the accusation.
As a side note, certain VMG players did get over touchy in the previous thread and in this one too, which I put it down to the fact that PIRAT was their very close allies, but it did get my bullshite meter going a bit…
I don’t like it because it paints me and my fellow alliance members as not being able to play the game legitimately. It’s a lazy attempt to try and undermine what we say and do - “you should get rid of wardecs because they’re being funded by bots”
Dude, give it a rest already. Save your Eve PvP meme drivel for newbies. I’ve been in this game for 10 yrs so I definitely don’t need to hear it.
Hell, you make it sound like every system in Eve has 100’s of players all looking to engage in combat. I’ve spent days, even weeks, in a lot of systems without ever seeing another player in local. Sure someone could jump into the system at any time and even if they did, they can’t directly engage me in PvP unless I allow it to happen.
Anyway, my original statement pertained to a posted reply in this thread saying all PvE content was connected and affected by PvP, to which I gave examples that showed otherwise.
Ok then, lets take examples of PvE and how they affect/are affected by PvP:
Anyone in a mission can be ganked by those looking for shiny mission runners with expensive mods. PvE becomes PvP
Anyone mining can be scammed by CODE for a permit/ just ganked for the hell of it. PvE becomes PvP
Manufacturing requires materials and goods that have to come from activities that are PvP affected (see above) - until recently moon goo could only come from low and null sec so doubly so. Equally, shipping the goods you’ve made can be a dangerous business if CODE are around.
Exploration sites in hisec basically serve as a training ground for those who go on to do the null sec sites which are the only ones worth running if you’re trying to earn money.
Incursion runners are again targets for wardec alliances and gankers because of the shiny stuff they fly.
Whatever way you look at it, PvE is either affected by or affects PvP. They’re inextricably linked and are supposed to be. Eve is not a game you’re supposed to be able to play and feel 100% safe 100% of the time
I believe that you have enough ISK to hire the best advocate in the city to win the court.
At the time is so ‘enjoyable’ to spectate on how the groups, which hates PVE and farming so much, showing just superb ratting results on all available boards.
Anyway, the current ‘boting issue’ in EVE is an inevitable case, which isn’t finished. Compared to other MMORPGS this discussion and these leaks happened a way to late.
The bot discussion is being had too late? I can’t remember a time when botting wasn’t discussed in Eve. Some of the darker corners of null sec haven’t changed hands in years and are safe havens for ratters and probably always will be. Ever since I joined the game (11 years ago now), there has been speculation that botting goes on in these areas.
This isn’t a new problem. However, in Eve it is harder to spot if it’s done in the right areas.
